30% mix - fueling experts chime in

[K4fxd]

E30 should give full MBT timing

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[WildHorse]

It's fine to use E30. The only reason for @WildHorse to do a check log is because he has a 18 intake manifold on a gen 2 coyote with gen 2 injectors. The 18 manifold reves higher and flows more air than the gen 2 manifold.

Yep. Good thing I spend very little time @ WOT doing the 1/4 mile. 11 secs or so haha.

E30 should give full MBT timing

That's the colonels secret recipe.

 

[WildHorse]

Good to be driving the whip again after a long slumber
Anyways, reloaded my 91 tune.. went for a burn. E30, probably
closer to E35 after 4 miles.

 

[50BMG]

I don't mean to hijack your thread here Wildhorse, but I'd like to axe a question about running an E mix fuel in my 100% stock 2020, A10, PP1 GT here if you don't mind???

I've spent considerable time in the last few days reviewing threads about mixing fuel, tunes to handle the different levels of ethanol, what the "stock" GT's tune can handle (and what it can't) along with all the darn CMCV, EECIV ,SCT, HPt, MBT, AF, PDQ, XYZ, LGBTQA1+ abbreviations than I know what to do with!
CALGON, TAKE ME AWAY!

Now, from the sound of this thread, it appears a stock 5.0L 3rd gen Coyote like the one I have under my hood can do all the proper ECU guided fuel quantity delivery and timing related adjustments to handle E30 levels of ethanol "SAFELY" (not running lean, no knock under strain, no expected engine/fuel delivery system damage that would come with any of the previous conditions)?

My original understanding is that our cars were factory programmed to handle any ethanol content of E15 or lower without skipping a beat. Is this true, or is it realistically/safely higher?
I don't currently have any add-on electronic hardware to closely monitor/log the FA ratios, knock, timing advance details, etc... besides what my GT Premium came with from the factory, so if I should stay away from mixing higher E level fuels until I can at least do that, I am glad to heed that warning too.

Secondly, me being a cheap bastage, I recently was trying to figure out a way of filling my GT for extended highway mile use without paying the extra buck$ to fill the tank with the straight E10 93 octane fuel I normally run.
So, I did the calculations starting with a base fuel of E10 89 octane and I figured out if I substitute 1.8 gallons of a true/tested E85 fuel per 15.5 gallon fill-up, I would end up with a tank full of 91 octane fuel with an ethanol content of about E19.
I figure 91 octane will be more than ample for highway traffic and would still allow me to "whack the throttle" if I felt the urge while on vacation. With the mix of fuel as described, I would realize a long-trip fuel cost saving$ of about $9 per fill-up (at my local-pump rates of course). Not bad...
BUT, car the car handle E19 levels of ethanol "safely"?
Heck, after reading this thread, can it handle E30 "safely" (stock injectors, stock tune, same sometimes lead footed driver behind the wheel)?

I'm a carbureted kinda guy. I built the 520 inch 385 Series beast of a motor that I had in my Cobra replica from the block up. My personally calculated cam profile, a self engineered distributor/cam gear oil-squirter for longevity. With the 903CFM custom built Holley that fed it (which I could just about tune with my eyes closed), that car ran mid to high 11 second quarter miles wearing marginal traction street-meats.
All this automated/ECU controlled fuel injected "stuff" is still 400 level classes for me right now. But I'm learning...
The target after I achieve 400 level knowledge is to add a 3.0L Whipple to the Mustang-Fun mix.

Thanks....

 

[robvas]

Wouldn't mind seeing an E10 to E30 back to back dyno if anyone's ever done one

 

[engineermike]

Wouldn't mind seeing an E10 to E30 back to back dyno if anyone's ever done one

No dyno but we tested this on a bone stock 2024. A gen3 and whatever gen the 2024 has (3.5?), they can’t hit mbt (26-27 according to ford) on 93 octane. The ones I’ve logged usually wind up around 24 after knock retard. The 2024 was hitting 26.5 in a log on e30 and fuel trims were well within normal ranges, similar to wildhorse’s log. So what’s 2.5 deg timing worth? Survey says on an na motor probably 15 hp give or take 5.

 

[WildHorse]

The 2024 was hitting 26.5 in a log on e30 and fuel trims were well within normal ranges, similar to wildhorse’s log. So what’s 2.5 deg timing worth? Survey says on an na motor probably 15 hp give or take 5.

Right.. good thing I can bump up my low RPM & High RPM timing. Pretty sure with E30 you can run 28 degrees or so.

 

[K4fxd]

These cars are capable of running 100% E. Just the stock tune will throw a code when trims get past a certain range.

 

[WildHorse]

Went on a 100 mile drive today.
STFT seemed to have settled at 2%.

I figure 91 octane will be more than ample for highway traffic and would still allow me to "whack the throttle" if I felt the urge while on vacation.

You thought right.

 

[50BMG]

These cars are capable of running 100% E. Just the stock tune will throw a code when trims get past a certain range.

So, the car won't be running too lean with even a lower/E30 level of ethanol?

If so, then my cheap bastage E19 mix "should" work tomorrow when I go chasing the eclipse in OH.???

 

[K4fxd]

If so, then my cheap bastage E19 mix "should" work tomorrow when I go chasing the eclipse in OH.???

Verified again by wildhorse.

It is best to add the E first then fill with gas.

 

[junits15]

I never have understood the want for running e30. What's the benefits? A couple degrees of timing? The PCM is already adding timing anyway considering the stock calibration is tuned for 87 octane. Timing advance is probably already tapped out with running 91. I doubt you will notice any difference with a butt dyno especially if you're N/A still.

Ethanol makes more power even at a fixed timing when compared to gasoline.

If you disabled timing advance on your car, filled with 91 and did a dyno run and then filled with enough ethanol to make e30 and did another dyno run you would make more power on ethanol. Ethanol isn't just an octane booster its a higher energy concentration in the cylinder.

 

[Pistol_91]

Ethanol makes more power even at a fixed timing when compared to gasoline.

Thanks for the info sherlock.... A good tune with GOOD 93 should see something like 25 degrees of timing N/A. Very much inside MBT. Adding a little bit of E is only going to net you a couple more degrees of timing.... You guys think you're going to actually make a ton more power, but you are not. Being boosted will net more gains considering boosted you will be around 15 degrees give or take. So doing e30 makes much more sense. N/A, not so much.
In the OPs case he's using 91 so it should be much better to run e30.

 

[junits15]

Thanks for the info sherlock.... A good tune with GOOD 93 should see something like 25 degrees of timing N/A. Very much inside MBT. Adding a little bit of E is only going to net you a couple more degrees of timing.... You guys think you're going to actually make a ton more power, but you are not. Being boosted will net more gains considering boosted you will be around 15 degrees give or take. So doing e30 makes much more sense. N/A, not so much.
In the OPs case he's using 91 so it should be much better to run e30.

If you're gonna be snarky you need to be correct.

ethanol makes more power even at the same timing, its always a good choice.

 

[sms2022]

I just ran E28 on my Gen 3 on the stock tune to take the car to the dealer. It ran okay but definitely on the lean side. The fuel trims did not exactly have it figured out. I highly recommend tuning. AFR sat around 13.6-13.7 when they should have been closer to 13.

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