'17 GT350 vs '17 Camaro SS 1LE

[Seceda91]

Just remember too, the 1SS and GTPP are about $1,100 difference.

Yeah, I did the math.. I just can't see myself driving a Camaro.. Always loved Mustangs and I love the look of the S550. If I wasn't such a performance oriented guy, I would have just got a base V8 5.0 and be done. Just not happy about the SS having the upper edge in performance. But like I said, with Ford's aftermarket support, that can easily be resolved!

I never drove a 6th Gen Camaro and I don't plan on too if you know what I mean.

You can hit the corners hard in a GTPP stock. Those run flats on the Camaro have their weaknesses too.

Looks like you just want an SS if you want to do all that to it just to keep up. :shrug:

JK.

People enjoy what they enjoy. Just know that if you do eventually plan on doing something other than an HPDE then you will not be allowed any engine modifications.

Most of the time they will allow a sway bar change, tires, and wheels. All of which the Camaro can do as well.

Eagle F1 AS on the SS is still much better than the Pzero's on the Mustang. I drove my friend's GTPP and it was AMAZING with raw power and the 3.73 torsen revs quick! But, it did felt heavy and being frank, I thought the EB PP handled better :shrug: Could just be the weight distr and not pushing it to the limits (which I'm sure the GTPP will shine over the EB).

I love and hate threads like these but it does give insight on the competition. If this thread never existed, the GTPP will raise NO QUESTIONS vs the SS because I always assumed it's just as fast, handled just as well... and the GT350 will always be thought of better track car than any SS Camaro.

Regardless of the results, I still will never choose a Camaro over a Mustang. Guess I'm more brand loyal than a car guy

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[Mr Monte]

I never drove a 6th Gen Camaro and I don't plan on too if you know what I mean.

Eagle F1 AS on the SS is still much better than the Pzero's on the Mustang.
Regardless of the results, I still will never choose a Camaro over a Mustang. Guess I'm more brand loyal than a car guy

You really should go test drive a new Camaro SS. From a performance prospective it's an impressive car. I'm not brand loyal and have owned both Camaros & Mustangs most of the last 40 years. I like having options

I installed new takeoff Gen6 Pzeros on my 13 GT for awhile then replaced them with over 80% tread remaining. By far the worse tire I have ever owned. Tires can make or break a car's driving experience.

 

[MRGTX]

I've never even seen a 1LE on the road here ever. And I see GTs a few times a week.

That makes sense the 6th gen 1LE isn't hitting even circulation yet. Are any in customer hands yet?

I saw a surprising number of 5th gen 1LEs...probably more likely that I just noticed every one that I saw thanks to the flat black hood.

You could make any box of crap pull high Gs. Just put wide and sticky tires on it.

The GT350 with the unique flat plane crank motor costs more than something with sticky tires and a truck motor. Not surprising to me.

+1 here. The GT350's engine is truly special. I think this will be treasured long after electrics have buried the performance of IC engines.

I find it funny how you use the 12k less when comparing a 1le to a gt350 but not 12k less when comparing a 1le to a z28. Face it. It's a pos Camaro....

Oh...crap. I just looked at the Lightning Lap video again. I totally missed that they were running a GT350R :frusty:
Ouch.

Yeah, I did the math.. I just can't see myself driving a Camaro.. Always loved Mustangs and I love the look of the S550. If I wasn't such a performance oriented guy, I would have just got a base V8 5.0 and be done. Just not happy about the SS having the upper edge in performance. But like I said, with Ford's aftermarket support, that can easily be resolved!
...

THANK YOU. This is my feeling exactly...and while many folks find other reasons to totally love their S550s, this matters to me too.

Just be careful. Too much talk like this and Toddfatback and others will start calling you out as a troll. :lol:

You really should go test drive a new Camaro SS. From a performance prospective it's an impressive car. I'm not brand loyal and have owned both Camaros & Mustangs most of the last 40 years. I like having options
...

I completely agree with this outlook.

 

[thePill]

The 1LE is less than 80 pounds heavier. Wider wheels/tires, recaros, bigger brakes, MRC, E-Diff. This is why it's heavier. Not like it magically gained 100 pounds. And btw it still comes in less than the 3,820 you guessed the regular 1SS would weigh. :lol:

Nah, it is pure fantasy.

Comparing the 2015 z28 to the 2017 1Le, the new 1Le is only 80-90lbs lighter than the z28. The z28 has far superior tires, wheels, track, engine, transmission, the CoG on a 5th Gen was an inch lower, Carbon Ceramic rotors at 15 inches in diameter. Nah... not happening. A 1Le can't touch a z28 on any track.

Now, GM promised a 2017 1Le to be 230lbs lighter than the 3870lbs example in 2015 right? Just as the ATS-V went from 3700lbs to 3803 like thePill warned, the 1Le did the same.

Unfortunately, the weight that was pulled in order to make an SS 3700lbs was added back in to some models. The Alpha is said to be "scalable". The 1Le just gained 100lbs over night. They did not achieve the 230lbs weight loss.


The GT350 though... after all the equipment was added, the GT350 stayed about the same as a GTPP. Integrated support...


Ever wonder why the ZL1 Convertible was delayed? Reinforcement was needed ;) I wouldn't hold my breath for a 200lbs weight loss on the ZL1 either. The Vamaro has already begun to gain its weight back.

 

[68fbjjz109]

Yeah, I did the math.. I just can't see myself driving a Camaro.. Always loved Mustangs and I love the look of the S550. If I wasn't such a performance oriented guy, I would have just got a base V8 5.0 and be done. Just not happy about the SS having the upper edge in performance. But like I said, with Ford's aftermarket support, that can easily be resolved!

I never drove a 6th Gen Camaro and I don't plan on too if you know what I mean.



Eagle F1 AS on the SS is still much better than the Pzero's on the Mustang. I drove my friend's GTPP and it was AMAZING with raw power and the 3.73 torsen revs quick! But, it did felt heavy and being frank, I thought the EB PP handled better :shrug: Could just be the weight distr and not pushing it to the limits (which I'm sure the GTPP will shine over the EB).

I love and hate threads like these but it does give insight on the competition. If this thread never existed, the GTPP will raise NO QUESTIONS vs the SS because I always assumed it's just as fast, handled just as well... and the GT350 will always be thought of better track car than any SS Camaro.

Regardless of the results, I still will never choose a Camaro over a Mustang. Guess I'm more brand loyal than a car guy

If you're cross shopping even with the primary intent of going to the S550. Why would you not atleast test drive a SS? Test driving it would be the first thing I would do if I was concerned with a performance gap. You'll be able to identify what areas you feel need to be addressed to mitigate potential shortfalls you notice, and begin to formulate a plan with how you plan on using the car.

One of the primary aspects of my job is benchmarking. Name a component on the Camaro I could walk out of my office, down to that section and pick up said component from a new SS. There is always insight to be gained, I would definitely check it out.

Then you have talking points with the Ford or Chevy dealer. The best thing about the Mustang is how cost competitive it is. Comparing MSRP to MSRP is fair; but the fact is you can get into a GTPP cheap, real cheap. Maybe you can work in a price from the dealer to get the Ford Handling Pack, and the Level 3 Performance Pack. Then Offload the staggered PP tire as new takeoffs, get a nice set of wheels, and some MPSS. And enjoy a car that is likely much more capable than you.

It won't beat out a 1LE on the track, but that delta will be much much smaller. And it will likely be the only trim level you have to worry about that is on the market today.

 

[thePill]

This is why it's heavier. Not like it magically gained 100 pounds. And btw it still comes in less than the 3,820 you guessed the regular 1SS would weigh. :lol:

Chevy said the 1Le lost 230lbs, now it's down to 120-ish. Like the ATS-V thePill warned you about.

Real deal is that the Alpha is frail. They needed to add 100lbs into the ATS-V taking it from 3700lbs to 3805lbs.

The SS that thePill reported between 3780-3820lbs was literally stripped of its steel and most of its equipment. The SS originally had the 13.79 inch Brembo's all around with larger tires both front and rear. A lot of equipment was limited to the 2SS or options as well :(

While that might seem fine, the target MSRP never changed. It had always been 36,505-37,995 like thePill reported. In other words, Chevy removed a lot of material and equipment but never brought the target MSRP down.

Now, the weight needs to go directly back in. thePill even said this would happen and it is occurring rather quickly.

Once thePill reported the ATS-V packing on additional weight, it should of raised the flag. The 1Le has followed suit :(

 

[Sasuketr]

Wow, the ACR put the smack down. Badass car!

The GT350R, non R is still badass but I can't afford either so I can only dream.

I can however save and get a GTPP.. so I'm very interested in that! I just want to know how it fairs against it's main competitor, the SS!

I'm wondering, if I can throw sticker tires on the PP will it hang close to a base 1SS (Lightest V8 Camaro) at a road course?! The SS 1LE doesn't impress me too much.. add the sticky tires on the 1SS with perhaps rear/front sway bars, lowering springs and it will handle just as well. Also, the 100 lbs weight over a 1SS is no good. Must be some heavy ass Recaros!! haha

Straight line, I can always add Ford's Power Pack 3 and keep up with an SS on the straights.. Just want to know if it can keep close on the tracks since the Alpha chassis is pretty damn good.

Ford still have greater aftermarket support and with 3-5k in mods, it MAY beat the SS at the drags and on the course!

Ford FTW!

Get the ford racing track handling package, lund flex fuel tune, wider tires (305 back 285 front) and mgw shifter. That combo might give you what you are looking for. I am on the way to that route as well.

 

[thePill]

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/...chief-engineer-al-oppenheiser-on-the-2017-1le

As you can see, Al O touted a 230lbs weight loss. Many independent sites reported a 3650lbs curb weight. The 1Le in the LL was 3743lbs with no options.

thePill reported the ATS-V's curb weight when it went from 3600-3700lbs to 3805lbs. In order for the 1SS to benefit from better tires and suspension, the structure needed reinforced... big time.

It's not a shocker, it was reported as far back as Spring this year. If the 1Le settled for a 130lbs weight loss, the ZL1 will likely use the same reinforcement methods.

 

[MRGTX]

Get the ford racing track handling package, lund flex fuel tune, wider tires (305 back 285 front) and mgw shifter. That combo might give you what you are looking for. I am on the way to that route as well.

Sasuketr,
You're almost certainly correct that this would close the performance gap and I think a lot of guys will entertain this route.

This isn't for everybody though. Some of us recognize the warranty as part of the purchase price. Losing that coverage and adding in the cost of all of these parts (and labor) you're probably getting darned close to a 1LE.

It's interesting to think how these cars will compare five years from now when they're all old cars. The Coyote appears to have the stronger rotating assembly...once nobody is worried about warranty/purchase price, OEM tires, OEM shocks, etc...the conversation will be very different.

 

[thePill]

Get the ford racing track handling package, lund flex fuel tune, wider tires (305 back 285 front) and mgw shifter. That combo might give you what you are looking for. I am on the way to that route as well.

You don't really need a Track Handling Pack, Ford Racing Tune or even any of the GT350 engine stuff.

You need a 275/285 and you are golden. The SCCA is proof of that.

 

[Seceda91]

You really should go test drive a new Camaro SS. From a performance prospective it's an impressive car. I'm not brand loyal and have owned both Camaros & Mustangs most of the last 40 years. I like having options

I installed new takeoff Gen6 Pzeros on my 13 GT for awhile then replaced them with over 80% tread remaining. By far the worse tire I have ever owned. Tires can make or break a car's driving experience.

I hear what you're saying but I just don't want to test drive it.. All this talk about the SS's performance and such, I would rather not know about it (experience the drive). I drove plenty of 5.0's and the power honestly is fine with me. It's everyone here that is saying such and such bout the performance of the SS. Yeah Michelin PSS or even Nitto 555G2 are better tires. The Eagle F1 RF on the Camaro SS is pretty damn good from what I hear. Just noisy.

If you're cross shopping even with the primary intent of going to the S550. Why would you not atleast test drive a SS? Test driving it would be the first thing I would do if I was concerned with a performance gap. You'll be able to identify what areas you feel need to be addressed to mitigate potential shortfalls you notice, and begin to formulate a plan with how you plan on using the car.

One of the primary aspects of my job is benchmarking. Name a component on the Camaro I could walk out of my office, down to that section and pick up said component from a new SS. There is always insight to be gained, I would definitely check it out.

Then you have talking points with the Ford or Chevy dealer. The best thing about the Mustang is how cost competitive it is. Comparing MSRP to MSRP is fair; but the fact is you can get into a GTPP cheap, real cheap. Maybe you can work in a price from the dealer to get the Ford Handling Pack, and the Level 3 Performance Pack. Then Offload the staggered PP tire as new takeoffs, get a nice set of wheels, and some MPSS. And enjoy a car that is likely much more capable than you.

It won't beat out a 1LE on the track, but that delta will be much much smaller. And it will likely be the only trim level you have to worry about that is on the market today.

That's my plan.. get a GTPP for 4-5k off MSRP.. change out the tires (I think the 275/245 staggered setup is fine) to Michelin PSS, lower it, add spacers to increase the track, rear/front sway bars down the road. With this setup, I believe it will be close to the SS on a road course handling wise.

Power wise, the Power Pack 3 is worth it to close the gap. I'm in total love with the look of the S550 and by adding those components, I can have the best of both worlds. Low-mid 12 sec M6 car than can handle!

 

[thePill]

The 1LE is less than 80 pounds heavier. Wider wheels/tires, recaros, bigger brakes, MRC, E-Diff. This is why it's heavier. Not like it magically gained 100 pounds. And btw it still comes in less than the 3,820 you guessed the regular 1SS would weigh. :lol:

From Chevy.com

1LE

0-60 mph in 5.2 seconds with Camaro LT 1LE
0-60 mph in 4.2 seconds with Camaro SS 1LE
0.97 g max cornering with Camaro LT 1LE
1.02 g max cornering with Camaro SS 1LE
60-0 mph braking in 112 feet (34 meters) with Camaro LT 1LE
60-0 mph braking in 107 feet (32 meters) with Camaro SS 1LE
230-pound (104 kg) weight reduction (SS 1LE to previous model)

The issue seemed to arise about a month before the Camaro was released. Chevy had to know there were weight gains coming since they were close the the ATS-V program.

Somewhere along the line, the SS packed on an unforeseen weight gain of 100lbs. This was the support that was pulled from the base cars.

The 2017 ZL1 is also said to be losing 220lbs. However, now that the structure has begun with its reinforcement, thePill's not sure that's happening.

The 1Le only lost 130lbs. I bet the ZL1 loses less than 100 due to the chassis flex with any extreme grip or acceleration. The ZL1 convertible has also been delayed :(

thePill covered this extensively October-November. The MSRP should have been reduced to reflect the last minute changes.

 

[1320']

$4,000-$5,000 off MSRP is going to be a real challenge.

Now, if you were to find a lower mile used GTPP for about..$27,000 or so..upgrade the suspension+Power Pack 2 (not 3 unless you plan on regularly spinning it to 7,500+)..MPSS's or SC2's and leave the 1LE in the dirt for about $7,000.

 

[Sasuketr]

Anyone has seen the yahoo article for the Ford Raptor. They say the truck will have an ecoboost v6 pumping 450 hp and 510 lbft of torque. 510 lbft of torque in a mustang would be a game changer.

 

[williamwally]

Anyone has seen the yahoo article for the Ford Raptor. They say the truck will have an ecoboost v6 pumping 450 hp and 510 lbft of torque. 510 lbft of torque in a mustang would be a game changer.

Yea that's very surprising. Clearly it wouldn't be hard for that engine to hit 500 hp/500tq. This would make a great option for a Mach1 or similar. I wonder what the total size/weight is compared to the 5.0?

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