The New 2017 ZL1 Camaro

[ZaneWayne]

That is the huge error... at one time, the 2017 zl1 was suppose to be $58,505-$59,995. That was the target window...

Where did you hear this? Was it the same voice that said the 1SS was going to weigh 3,805? Or is that a different voice?

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[thePill]

Where did you hear this? Was it the same voice that said the 1SS was going to weigh 3,805? Or is that a different voice?

If you only realize the rigidy that was sacrificed to achieve that :lol: You wouldn't be bragging... The poor Alpha was gutted and is a shadow of its former self.


No, the people that said the zl1 was suppose to be $58,505-$59,995 were the same ones that said the SS was $36,505-$37,995. Was thePill correct? Hell yeah he was, dead on accurate.

The weight loss was a budget issue. They desperately wanted to add in the convertible and HALO model reinforcements BUT, as you see, the SS would have busted the $38,000 MSRP. You can see the 2SS took on the extra $$$ so a $37,300 1SS could be had. Same exact situation here... the zl1 went up so the 1Le could go down.


Furthermore... have you ever looked into the 6th Gen's torsional rigidy vs the ATS? It is downright embarrassing. Enjoy your 3700lbs base model SS with ZERO options available and $5000 more. Because not many others feel the same way (see sales).


The Alpha was never ment to handle a V8 let alone LT4. But enough of that... the 2017 zl1 isn't worth the $20,000 premium. It's GT500 food and it always will be...

 

[thePill]

Where did you hear this? Was it the same voice that said the 1SS was going to weigh 3,805? Or is that a different voice?

Do you have any idea what was cut in order to get an SS to 3700lbs and $37,300 (now $37,900)? Remember, I specifically told you the MSRP would increase very quickly right? Boom! $605 increase after the 5th month of sales? Remember to tiny 13 inch standard brakes I laughed about? The 245's in the front? The lack of structural or convertible support? Don't you want to know how a 110.7x63 inch Alpha got lighter than the 109.3x61 donor car? (2SS at 3770 vs 3803lbs? Ever wonder why no structural data was released?

Because everyone could plainly see the difference. It doesn't perform better outside of a magazine or 1/4 mile with an auto. Now they want to put an LT4 in a Camaro with no chassis work?

Classic!!!

 

[thePill]

Where did you hear this? Was it the same voice that said the 1SS was going to weigh 3,805? Or is that a different voice?

...same sources that confirmed the $36,505-$37,995 MSRP window for the SS. I was informed via FB, from more than one source.

thePill reported the target MSRP here... about 6-7 weeks before it went live. However, the 2SS busted its $39,995 ceiling in order for the 1SS to clear $38,000. Also reported the hasty MSRP increases and we already see a $605 in the first 5 months.

 

[willisit]

...same sources that confirmed the $36,505-$37,995 MSRP window for the SS. I was informed via FB, from more than one source.

thePill reported the target MSRP here... about 6-7 weeks before it went live. However, the 2SS busted its $39,995 ceiling in order for the 1SS to clear $38,000. Also reported the hasty MSRP increases and we already see a $605 in the first 5 months.

Why is it that you're so angry about a car? I don't understand at all. If you love the GT500 so much, great. We live in a world where manufacturers are giving up 500/600 and 700hp cars for pennies. Are ANY of them worth the money? Not even a little bit - these aren't cars you buy because "value" - they're bought with the heart.

I can tell you right now that the Mustang and Camaro in the ANY country are great value cars; the ZL1; GT500; whatever (I could care less; we get NONE of them in the UK anyway!) are unreal value - and yet I don't know a single person that'd buy one because they out perform a Ferrari at the money - they love them because of what they are.

Buy with your wallet. Enjoy whatever it is you drive; let others do the same. We aren't here long enough for your kind of cynicism to be a thing.

 

[thePill]

10 Speed Automatic looks delayed until March 2017, possibly longer.

There is an issue with cooling the LT4 while a 10 speed auto is equipped.


thePill has been saying, the zl1 NEEDS, REQUIRES and can't live without an AC Delete. The Camaro's front fascia is of very poor design for airflow. It evolved into this after 2013, a bottom feeding, bottom feeder. The coolers are not helping...

 

[thePill]

One does begin to wonder...

...how GM can release full specifications while not all R&D has been completed. It seems they are willing to advertise but not willing to put in the work.

Do not be foolish... there is no supply issue. Same issue initially plagued the LT4 z06 too right? At first they delayed the automatic then they needed to redesign the fascia/hood and cooling system.


Anyone remember GM putting Stop Leak in the radiators from the factory? Now they just stack coolers with little effect. Why not use an increased capacity radiator like the Mustang and C7?

 

[ZaneWayne]

10 Speed Automatic looks delayed until March 2017, possibly longer.

There is an issue with cooling the LT4 while a 10 speed auto is equipped.


thePill has been saying, the zl1 NEEDS, REQUIRES and can't live without an AC Delete. The Camaro's front fascia is of very poor design for airflow. It evolved into this after 2013, a bottom feeding, bottom feeder. The coolers are not helping...

Except it's a software issue. At least that's what GM said.
Edit: and I am going to trust GM more than you, sorry Pill.

 

[thePill]

Except it's a software issue. At least that's what GM said.
Edit: and I am going to trust GM more than you, sorry Pill.

You don't need to be sorry... he's not lying either...

The issue doesn't solely exist in the automatic, however, "Limp Mode" is just as severe as the 2015 z06. Here is why both the A8 and A10 need special considerations and tuning/programming (so I'm told).

The A8 and A10 do something the manual doesn't so... it keeps you in the powerband. In other words, these automatic transmissions sole purpose in life is to keep the engines RPM's up to make the best of its 650hp. With the z06's A8 (and even the Z51's LT1 A8) pulling 3500+lbs is a less optimal 8 speed caused issues... enough to warrant an emergency refresh...

The A10 in the zl1 is even more optimal... keeping the 4000lbs moving behind a supercharged LT4. Here is where the new software is suppose to help.

Instead of the utmost optimal shift points, the A10 had to be softened a little. Remember the delay in 2012? Some said it was too dial back the LS9? Remember when Al said 11's all day? It can beat the GT500? Don't hastily put your faith into things...

Anyway, new software with less optimal shift points (earlier shifts) will keep RPM's down as well as heat.




thePill knows it won't help. It might delay the Heat Soak/Limp Mode but nothing can fix it. Heat soak is a huge issue with "In the V" superchargers. Sure, there are 11 coolers on the car. Please understand that Heat Soak WILL soak the Heat Exchangers as well. Eventually, even the "coolers" become heaters... they cease to cool and that is due to poor airflow.

 

[ZaneWayne]

You don't need to be sorry... he's not lying either...

The issue doesn't solely exist in the automatic, however, "Limp Mode" is just as severe as the 2015 z06. Here is why both the A8 and A10 need special considerations and tuning/programming (so I'm told).

The A8 and A10 do something the manual doesn't so... it keeps you in the powerband. In other words, these automatic transmissions sole purpose in life is to keep the engines RPM's up to make the best of its 650hp. With the z06's A8 (and even the Z51's LT1 A8) pulling 3500+lbs is a less optimal 8 speed caused issues... enough to warrant an emergency refresh...

The A10 in the zl1 is even more optimal... keeping the 4000lbs moving behind a supercharged LT4. Here is where the new software is suppose to help.

Instead of the utmost optimal shift points, the A10 had to be softened a little. Remember the delay in 2012? Some said it was too dial back the LS9? Remember when Al said 11's all day? It can beat the GT500? Don't hastily put your faith into things...

Anyway, new software with less optimal shift points (earlier shifts) will keep RPM's down as well as heat.




thePill knows it won't help. It might delay the Heat Soak/Limp Mode but nothing can fix it. Heat soak is a huge issue with "In the V" superchargers. Sure, there are 11 coolers on the car. Please understand that Heat Soak WILL soak the Heat Exchangers as well. Eventually, even the "coolers" become heaters... they cease to cool and that is due to poor airflow.

I would much rather they take their time and get it right rather than the ZO6 and GT350 limp mode fiascos.

 

[RyanR3KC]

. It's GT500 food and it always will be...

Lol. Bashing the ZL1 and the GT500 had its own issues and was far from a flawless car. Outside of a dragstrip that car was subpar and had its own heat issues. Heat soak is the risk with any supercharged car. Not to mention how the base and Tech pack GT350 owners got hosed on limp mode as well.

If I buy one I wouldn't buy an automatic anyway...can we all agree...that paddle shift **click** noise. Ugh, it does unhappy things to my ears

 

[Voodooo]

I would much rather they take their time and get it right rather than the ZO6 and GT350 limp mode fiascos.

The engineering on the GT350 is great. The engineering wasn't the cause of the limp mode. It's the lack of coolers on tech cars that had limp mode because the bean counters and dealer order personal. Not the engineering.
If the track pack and R cars had cooling issues then I would agree to the engineering.

 

[thePill]

Lol. Bashing the ZL1 and the GT500 had its own issues and was far from a flawless car. Outside of a dragstrip that car was subpar and had its own heat issues. Heat soak is the risk with any supercharged car. Not to mention how the base and Tech pack GT350 owners got hosed on limp mode as well.

If I buy one I wouldn't buy an automatic anyway...can we all agree...that paddle shift **click** noise. Ugh, it does unhappy things to my ears

8 months ago thePill was insane for such a suggestion. Now it's "the Mustang does it too!"

How does a customer that didn't option an extra cooler getting hosed? They didn't order it and without a transmission cooler, it gets hot. Hence the "Track" and "Tech" packages.

The issue in the zl1 has the potential to be catastrophic and Limp Mode with 11 coolers is laughable. Now that it is a very real issue and thePill reported it here first, it has become a compound issue. Many are just unwilling to let themselves be comfortable with that.

 

[thePill]

The 2017 zl1 will have a Strut Tower Brace delete? Team camaro couldn't fit a Strut Tower Brace on with the newly (and hastily) designed Valley Cover :lol:

Oh Noooooo...


Team camaro engineered a high rise valley cover to help keep the rear cylinders cool. thePill needs to point out that there is indeed high airflow restrictions on the camaro fascia. The CTS-V and z06 all had a strut tower brace, the z06 is receiving this as well.


How well does a car handle on 285's and a Strut Tower Brace delete?

 

[bluebeastsrt]

The Camaro6 crowd will again change their toon. They'll claim it's the car chevy choice as their drag car. See it has a line lock! No more talk about ring times for the ZL1. Two years ago nobody on camaro5 would even allow you to mention drag racing.

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