Best return fuel system

[bankyf]

I decided to but KPM 1500HP PWM controller. I am installing now.

Let me know if you have any questions on the install.

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[DougS550]

Let me know if you have any questions on the install.

Thank you. When I inspected the fuel hat assembly prior to install, I noticed the two terminal slip ring on the regulator was just sitting closely. Dave said my assembly was missing the Spring Clip which goes over the Two terminal slip ring holding the regulator in place. He sent me a new one which shows to arrive Monday. So now I am just now finishing up the wiring.

 

[SolarFlare]

It’s not going cheap. I just don’t like my vehicles dying at stoplights because you can’t run less than half a tank. You can’t run less than half a tank if you want to do anything.
what I don’t understand is why people think that if a company sells it to you in a package that you are some how getting a deal. You think that package was designed to save you money trust me that package was designed to make them money

Mustangs with Fore systems die at lights under half tank? My car must have not gotten the memo.

almost seems like the trend after 2020 or so is not to come out with a product and sell it based on its merits but rather come out with a product and talk down every other competing product until people believe it and buy it….

 

[J17GT]

The majority of these kits are not all that different… PTFE fuel hose, AN fittings, injectors and pumps. Most use similar stuff. Only real difference is the fuel hat/bucket and some differences in the wiring/controller. Pick what tickles your fancy, they all work.

I liked the idea of the Radium hat with bucket. Juggernaut/Arcane packaged a nice kit with the same pumps everyone uses and what appeared to be easy wiring. The rest is all hose and fittings. Indeed the wiring was easy and everything went together nicely and my car runs awesome. I’m sure a Fore kit or Lethal kit etc would be very similar. It’s a great time to be car guy with all these awesome options on a platform that makes power almost too easily.

 

[Timbuck]

Can we have some more pics of that bucket please Doug. Looks well designed.

 

[WildHorse]

So what does the 1,025 horsepower on E-85 Demon use for a fuel system again ?

 

[jpjr501]

Mustangs with Fore systems die at lights under half tank? My car must have not gotten the memo.

almost seems like the trend after 2020 or so is not to come out with a product and sell it based on its merits but rather come out with a product and talk down every other competing product until people believe it and buy it….

Mine either, full Fore systems here. Never heard of this.

 

[andrewtac]

Mine either, full Fore systems here. Never heard of this.

Mine either, I've even made hits less than half a tank, never gone lean. I do usually top the tank off after driving at the house; but more to keep it full and water out.

 

[Angrey]

Mine either, I've even made hits less than half a tank, never gone lean. I do usually top the tank off after driving at the house; but more to keep it full and water out.

In fairness, I don't think many people experience the car dying under half a tank. But the idea that it doesn't go lean under hard acceleration.......do you log every single hit? So if it was going lean how would you know?

I personally think more guys risk their motor without even realizing it than anyone would like to admit.

And to be fair to Lund, this is a symptom of any fuel system that runs completely naked pumps without some sorta protection like hydramat or foam surrounds.



5:00 mark.

 

[andrewtac]

In fairness, I don't think many people experience the car dying under half a tank. But the idea that it doesn't go lean under hard acceleration.......do you log every single hit? So if it was going lean how would you know?

I personally think more guys risk their motor without even realizing it than anyone would like to admit.

And to be fair to Lund, this is a symptom of any fuel system that runs completely naked pumps without some sorta protection like hydramat or foam surrounds.



5:00 mark.

I can't remember which logs they are, but they were logged. Did it when I was logging and sending logs to Lund. So I assume if they went lean they would have said something. Now I have two 50 gallon drums of e85 in the garage. The car gets filled up when I bring it back, so I am usually very full.all the time now. I understand the danger in the design, just never had issues with it.

 

[DougS550]

Can we have some more pics of that bucket please Doug. Looks well designed.

I thought I posted pictures, my bad. I am completing up my KPM PWM wiring, and going to pick up E85 and do leak checks before downloading Wengerds startup file. I will post pictures later

 

[Angrey]

I can't remember which logs they are, but they were logged. Did it when I was logging and sending logs to Lund. So I assume if they went lean they would have said something. Now I have two 50 gallon drums of e85 in the garage. The car gets filled up when I bring it back, so I am usually very full.all the time now. I understand the danger in the design, just never had issues with it.

That's my point, doing the test/proofing logs for the tune isn't going to reveal an issue, especially if it's done on fuel levels above 1/2 tank.

I suspect if someone has the power/torque and traction to really push forward at a decent acceleration, they're leaning out and just don't realize it if they're not constantly logging. The tune will obviously accommodate and yank timing as much as possible, but the point is, Fore or Fore knockoff, any fuel system that features naked pumps is going to be a starvation risk at lower fuel levels with hard acceleration in any direction.

Again, guys get so ass hurt over this stuff. I'm not saying I wouldn't run a "Fore style" setup if it was the only thing available. But the question becomes, why even risk it if there are viable and cost equivalent options on the marketplace.

I can see "race car" as the response if that's the only option. But that's just not the case anymore.

I lived with a shitty idle and a terrible "cold start" (that terrorizes my neighbors) for a long time. Because, race car and because the alternative was stupid expensive. Now that I have the MOTEC, my idle is buttery smooth and there's no dumbass cold start anymore. I didn't get the MOTEC for those benefits, but they sure are nice. IF there was an alternative on the marketplace that was cost equal and could resolve those things, I'd be touting those as well.

They're not deal breakers. It's not the end of the world to have to run 1/2 tank all the time, but only someone self serving or stubborn would refuse to admit that ONLY being able to flog the car when the fuel level is 1/2 or above is a bit of an annoying constraint. On E85, I'm lucky to get 60 miles before I'm at half fuel. So now I have to basically limit myself the rest of the tank until I top it off again. It's bad enough refueling every 110 miles or so, now having to do it every 60 just to stay safe.............."race car" works when there's no other options available. Now there are. So there's really no reason to live with it or put up with it anymore.

 

[DougS550]

That's my point, doing the test/proofing logs for the tune isn't going to reveal an issue, especially if it's done on fuel levels above 1/2 tank.

I suspect if someone has the power/torque and traction to really push forward at a decent acceleration, they're leaning out and just don't realize it if they're not constantly logging. The tune will obviously accommodate and yank timing as much as possible, but the point is, Fore or Fore knockoff, any fuel system that features naked pumps is going to be a starvation risk at lower fuel levels with hard acceleration in any direction.

Again, guys get so ass hurt over this stuff. I'm not saying I wouldn't run a "Fore style" setup if it was the only thing available. But the question becomes, why even risk it if there are viable and cost equivalent options on the marketplace.

I can see "race car" as the response if that's the only option. But that's just not the case anymore.

I lived with a shitty idle and a terrible "cold start" (that terrorizes my neighbors) for a long time. Because, race car and because the alternative was stupid expensive. Now that I have the MOTEC, my idle is buttery smooth and there's no dumbass cold start anymore. I didn't get the MOTEC for those benefits, but they sure are nice. IF there was an alternative on the marketplace that was cost equal and could resolve those things, I'd be touting those as well.

They're not deal breakers. It's not the end of the world to have to run 1/2 tank all the time, but only someone self serving or stubborn would refuse to admit that ONLY being able to flog the car when the fuel level is 1/2 or above is a bit of an annoying constraint. On E85, I'm lucky to get 60 miles before I'm at half fuel. So now I have to basically limit myself the rest of the tank until I top it off again. It's bad enough refueling every 110 miles or so, now having to do it every 60 just to stay safe.............."race car" works when there's no other options available. Now there are. So there's really no reason to live with it or put up with it anymore.

I think I mentioned this before. My friend who is the Performance Rep at my local Ford dealership said, he has burned out two Fore fuel pumps and guess what Fore told him when he called them??. You must have run your tank below 1/2 tank and burned them out. He has a Roush F150 on a Fore Return system on E85 during spring and summer then back to 93 during the winter. His is a Daily driver, but he plays hard. For me on my street driven car I would not run a bucket less fuel hat. This tank is small and is like a horse shoe design.
FYI: Something caught my attention when removing my fuel hat assembly for the upgrade. My fuel gauge read just under 1/2 tank. I used a battery operated fuel transfer pump to empty the LT (drivers side). I then thought he'll, I need to empty the RT (passenger side) Crossfeed hat assembly and to my surprise, it was empty. So I guess the crossfeed pushes fuel from the RT side to the left side during normal operation. I guess with the design of our tanks it is nessasary. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Headless Horseman]

I think I mentioned this before. My friend who is the Performance Rep at my local Ford dealership said, he has burned out two Fore fuel pumps and guess what Fore told him when he called them??. You must have run your tank below 1/2 tank and burned them out. He has a Roush F150 on a Fore Return system on E85 during spring and summer then back to 93 during the winter. His is a Daily driver, but he plays hard. For me on my street driven car I would not run a bucket less fuel hat. This tank is small and is like a horse shoe design.
FYI: Something caught my attention when removing my fuel hat assembly for the upgrade. My fuel gauge read just under 1/2 tank. I used a battery operated fuel transfer pump to empty the LT (drivers side). I then thought he'll, I need to empty the RT (passenger side) Crossfeed hat assembly and to my surprise, it was empty. So I guess the crossfeed pushes fuel from the RT side to the left side during normal operation. I guess with the design of our tanks it is nessasary. Just my 2 cents.

I would just like to add, I'm so completely confused!! What's the best system to run on the street for a daily set-up? I drive hard and would like the option to keep doing so below half a tank. I'm trying to figure this into my cost since I'll need it once I get my ESS. I'm on E85 and will stay on it with the ESS. Any help is appreciated. I don't care about brands just quality and performance. Also I'm not trying to go the cheapest route. If you do it right, you'll do it once!

 

[Angrey]

I would just like to add, I'm so completely confused!! What's the best system to run on the street for a daily set-up? I drive hard and would like the option to keep doing so below half a tank. I'm trying to figure this into my cost since I'll need it once I get my ESS. I'm on E85 and will stay on it with the ESS. Any help is appreciated. I don't care about brands just quality and performance. Also I'm not trying to go the cheapest route. If you do it right, you'll do it once!

I'll lay this out as simply as possible.

On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being least concern and 10 being highest concern.

A stock power/torque level car with no traction upgrades: 1

Moderately upgraded power/torque and no traction upgrades: 2

Stock power/torque level with significant traction/chassis upgrades: 5

Significant power/torque upgrades and no traction: 6

Significant power/torque upgrades and moderate traction: 7

Moderate power/torque and significant traction: 9

Significant power/torque and significant traction: 10.

There's a few inputs here but they are how much torque (meaning how much acceleration the powertrain can theoretically make) how much traction (meaning how much of that torque the tires can actually put to work), how much power (meaning how LONG the car can maintain that level of acceleration) and (power also equates to how much more fuel the motor is consuming).

The safest system would be a surge tank. This protects the supply pumps from ever being starved with an acceleration in any direction (not just forward). Typically see these on road/track cars because there's still a need for large/stock sized fuel cells. Typically you don't find the complexity of a surge tank on all out drag cars because they can dump or abandon the OE saddle style tank for a racing fuel cell located nearer to the back (which serves as it's own surge tank).

Outside of a surge tank, if you have nothing surrounding the pumps (i.e. naked) then the harder you can accelerate (torque and traction) and the longer you can maintain that (slosh to the rear and stay there) then the greater the risk that the pumps will suck dry any fuel near them when you mash.

So the harder the car can send fuel to the back and the longer it can stay there the more fuel you'll need to run in the tank to keep the pumps from potentially starving and running lean conditions.

I've left out the part about the tune on upgraded power/modified cars, as OE tune seems to have adequate protections against fuel starve conditions (as we've seen with the GT350's in long sweeping left hand turn scenarios). Aftermarket tunes, not as much. If it runs lean, it can definitely hurt or smoke the motor.

In summary, you may not need a surge tank, but if you can buy a system that features at least a modified OE bucket or an upgraded bucket with one way check valves to allow fuel in but not out, that's more protection than just fuel sloshing around and hoping for the best.

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