'17 GT350 vs '17 Camaro SS 1LE

[thePill]

Yes it was faster. 99 percent of people agree. Even guys over st C6 are saying the same thing.

Because it proves media can't be trusted...

The GT350R is seconds in front of a 2015-'15 z28. thePill's readers knew about this long before the 350 came out.

Next, it's a follow up to the embarrassing 469RWHP z28 MotorTrend failed to acknowledge and let H2H.

Next, Chevy could very well attempt to BS people about the 1Le's performance vs. the z28. Chevy literally has nothing to replace the z28 with in reality and they are trying to pass a Goodyear equip'd, LT1 Camaro as a suitable replacement. Any Motorsport class the z28 existed will not fair well for an SS1Le.

We need to consider the very 1Le's GM sent to test, could very well be dyno'd at 420-440RWHP. Engineers were on hand at Laguna, likely babysitting at VIR too...



...because of anything goes wrong at this point, the Camaro is truly doomed.

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[thePill]

I think that's the danger of going by these magazine times, with either semi-pro or VERY pro drivers behind the wheels and expecting your average hobbist or auto enthusiast to match them.

Then they'll scream, blame the manufacturer or claim ringer/bias/buyoff, etc.

Hell I'm not even as good as myself some days..you might have a headache the day you try and drive it, or have an inner ear issue that messes up your senses/balance etc..

Drive the damn cars and have fun, save the stressing to the professionals.

Not many people actually replicate the claimed times Chevy gives for the Camaro.

The Automatic SS's claimed 12.3 was the first claim in a while to hold up.

The SCCA has the '15 1LE, '16 SS and '15-'16 GT's all within .025 seconds this year. The '16 Camaro benefits the most allowed to use 275's all around. The issue now is cost and it's killing the Camaro and thePill is happy about that.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

I think that's the danger of going by these magazine times, with either semi-pro or VERY pro drivers behind the wheels and expecting your average hobbist or auto enthusiast to match them.

Then they'll scream, blame the manufacturer or claim ringer/bias/buyoff, etc.

Hell I'm not even as good as myself some days..you might have a headache the day you try and drive it, or have an inner ear issue that messes up your senses/balance etc..

Drive the damn cars and have fun, save the stressing to the professionals.

I can have fun in just about any car on track. I took my 328 out to Chuckwalla just to try it out on track and had a blast.

That being said, everyone who tracks regularly wants to go faster. And although it is generally not racing, it does feel good to pass people. I think just about anyone that tracks will admit that. It feels best when you know that you are in a less capable car, yet your skill allowed you to pass someone else. I've passed plenty of people in exotics and cracked a smile while driving a $40K Camaro.

That being said, the magazine tests are useful for setting the bar and understanding what car has what performance capabilities out of the box with all things equal. I like to get the most performance for my money in most circumstances.

There are intangibles though... a high revving motor for example can be a joy to drive. I would rather have a car that winds out to 8000+ RPMs just for the sound and the smile it puts on my face every day. That's why I would still choose a GT350 even if a head to head says the 1LE is capable of a quicker lap.

 

[thePill]

Real World Results:

SCCA Tire Rack ProSolo Nationals.

Day #1

F Street (Only class the Camaro stands a chance)

1st: 2015 1LE on 305's
2nd: 2016 SS on 275's
3rd: 2015 GTPP Stock Tires, list says Michelin
4th: Mark Scroggs in a 2015 Ecoboost Mustang!!! 275's I believe.

Not sure what happened today.

The Mustang's own STP and a GTPP won FSL and a '16 SS came in 2nd.

This is why you cannot place much faith into magazine articles. The '16 didn't do bad but it would have been better off keeping the 5th Gen.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

I'm afraid a 460hp 1Le is no match for a 505hp z28 on R rubber. They weighed the 1Le at 3747lbs so PtW is pretty close.

The difficulty to actually overtake another vehicle with the same or better Power to Weight ratio and superior tires is ever present. You also need to consider those z28's dyno'd magic Numbers like the 469rwhp version Chevy sent. When has a z28 dyno'd that high? Never...

It's fun to pretend the 1Le is a suitable replacement for the z28 and a fine competitor for the GT350. The truth is, Chevy actually can't beat the Z with a Frankensteined 1Le. The jig is pretty much up and I can see people throwing the BS flag.

A 1Le on Goodyears might be great... but you can't expect it to outpace even the ATS-V on its tires. Nor can it manage an M4 GTS, z28 or 350R.

Maybe it could keep pace with the GT350TP but not likely. You are shifting less, have a better footprint, slightly better rubber and far better brakes. At 3750lbs, it just doesn't have the Power to Weight nor tire and brake to keep up with a GT350TP. They were out engineered...

Let's just say you're right about the Z28 being a ringer. If that's the case and they set the times with that car... then they went out and beat that time with the new 1LE. What does that mean? That the 1LE was a super duper ringer? Did they hide a blower in there when no one was looking just for the Pobst laps? They've duped us all again!

 

[thePill]

Let's just say you're right about the Z28 being a ringer. If that's the case and they set the times with that car... then they went out and beat that time with the new 1LE. What does that mean? That the 1LE was a super duper ringer? Did they hide a blower in there when no one was looking just for the Pobst laps? They've duped us all again!

We need access to the facts and a dyno of the 1Le needs done. If we personally witnessed Chevy use a Ringer z28, isn't it safe to assume all of its times were dirty?

2:50.8 at VIR yet a GT350R ran it in 2:51.8. But a GT350R slaughters a z28, even at 469RWHP.

Have you looked at the ATS-V TP's lap time at Laguna with Randy driving? 1:39.65 and it was a Paddle Shifted Auto. 3780lbs, Michelin PS2's, same brakes and better footprint. Are the Goodyears on the 1Le that good? The ATS-V and 1Le share brakes right? The ATS-V uses 19 inch wheels...

...along comes a Camaro, with absolutely zero R&D done on stand alone parts, shaves 2 seconds off its lap time? But the GT350R stays at 1:36 so we know it's not a replaced track of magic stuff like that.

The 1Le just simply doesn't have the equipment to handle a z28. It's not even close :(.

A C7 Z51 is about as fast as a z28.


Is a 1Le faster than a C7 Z51? I can't see that happening.


We just witnessed an EBPP almost best both 2015 1LE and '16 SS in the SCCA FS. The media would have us believe this isn't possible :(

A GT just won the FSL championship over a '16 SS.


thePill likes Real World results especially after MT tried to sneak that 469rwhp z28 by us. The z28 had a hot LS7 and the day they were running the 1Le, it was said the engineers ran a 1:39-1:40. They proceeded to tune it and run it in different times of the day. Nobody else gets that opportunity... Also occurred during a GTR H2H. It's actually quite sad :( they don't have much money left.

 

[02gtnh]

Not many people actually replicate the claimed times Chevy gives for the Camaro.

The Automatic SS's claimed 12.3 was the first claim in a while to hold up.

The SCCA has the '15 1LE, '16 SS and '15-'16 GT's all within .025 seconds this year. The '16 Camaro benefits the most allowed to use 275's all around. The issue now is cost and it's killing the Camaro and thePill is happy about that.

What hat did you pull this out of?

 

[Voodooo]

I'm done reading this thread and arguing over stupid magazine results of a inferior piece of shit Camaro 1LE. What a stupid name of a package anyhow. Their is no way in hell a Camaro with 71 less hp, near equal weight is ever going to beat a GT350 track pack! The Z28 was beat by the R and everyone knows it. Now the magazine wants to post times from different days and different drivers and show the Z as the faster car? Give me a break! They never had creditable results and this proves it.

 

[kz]

What hat did you pull this out of?

Probably autocross results from Nationals - that he completely doesn't understand (I highly doubt he ever saw a single autocross run).

Third place in FS took Mark Scroggs in Ecoboost - fantastic driver - what does it mean ? That drawing any conclusions about the cars from autocross results is just stupid.

 

[Voodooo]

I can have fun in just about any car on track. I took my 328 out to Chuckwalla just to try it out on track and had a blast.

That being said, everyone who tracks regularly wants to go faster. And although it is generally not racing, it does feel good to pass people. I think just about anyone that tracks will admit that. It feels best when you know that you are in a less capable car, yet your skill allowed you to pass someone else. I've passed plenty of people in exotics and cracked a smile while driving a $40K Camaro.

That being said, the magazine tests are useful for setting the bar and understanding what car has what performance capabilities out of the box with all things equal. I like to get the most performance for my money in most circumstances.

There are intangibles though... a high revving motor for example can be a joy to drive. I would rather have a car that winds out to 8000+ RPMs just for the sound and the smile it puts on my face every day. That's why I would still choose a GT350 even if a head to head says the 1LE is capable of a quicker lap.

So you just proven a point. No $40k Camaro is going to beat an exotic modern vehicle. It's the drivers experience. And the magazine proven that the drivers they have suck ass. Unless that driver is a professional.

 

[thePill]

What hat did you pull this out of?

The SCCA does a Class Report each year. Last year the championship 1LE was used as the benchmark.

http://www.solomatters.com/class_report_f-street_comparison

The GT in the test is a fully loaded, GTPP Premium w/ 12 speakers (3822lbs) is used. The 1LE, as I said, is the actual 2015 Championship car. The results between the two with 275's equip'd is 0.25 seconds.


In many cases, the media will withhold testing a GTPP against an SS. A Full Size Platform is terrible and Ford keeps taking advantage at short tracks.

 

[thePill]

Probably autocross results from Nationals - that he completely doesn't understand (I highly doubt he ever saw a single autocross run).

Third place in FS took Mark Scroggs in Ecoboost - fantastic driver - what does it mean ? That drawing any conclusions about the cars from autocross results is just stupid.

http://www.solomatters.com/class_report_f-street_comparison

Why? Because it contradicts the One Lap Wonder contest the media plays for you?

The SCCA actually monitors the stock performance of the two AND they placed they ALL in the same class. Like it or not, the Mustang is very, very fast.

 

[thePill]

I am amazed nobody talks about the 100lbs weight gain the 1Le went through. The ATS-V went through a similar increase that thePill provided commentary for.

3750lbs is where the 1SS would have been if it were equipped with the 13.79's from the XTS instead of the 13.6/13.4 it uses now.

The 1Le uses the ATS-V's brakes and that's why it's hard to believe a 1Le could beat it. Randy drove an ATS-VTP (3780lbs) with a paddle shifted automatic to a 1:39.65. A Stingray ran a 1:38.2 and the Z51 should be around 1:38 flat...


...this is where fiction begins.

It would be extremely difficult for an LT1 equip'd Camaro to put time on a C7 Stingray OR the Z51 unless it had quality rubber. While I'm sure the Goodyears are "good", I'm not sure the can hang with the Michelin's or not. If the 1Le runs a 1:37.7, it's not from a repave. The GT350R is still a 1:35-1:36 car at Laguna. The z28 ran a 2:50 before, now what? It's 2-3 seconds faster than the R here?

All the confusion surrounds the Camaro's. When you let a z28 run Laguna with 30hp more than stock and set a lap time (and who knows what else), it becomes fiction.


Then we look to the SCCA for Real World results and see a EBPP nearly dethroning the 1LE and costing the '16 SS a championship.

Who is scared and why?

 

[ZaneWayne]

I'm done reading this thread and arguing over stupid magazine results of a inferior piece of shit Camaro 1LE. What a stupid name of a package anyhow. Their is no way in hell a Camaro with 71 less hp, near equal weight is ever going to beat a GT350 track pack!

Haha. Man you are getting really worked up over this. What if they do test them with Pobst, and the 1LE is faster?

 

[JohnnyUtah]

So you just proven a point. No $40k Camaro is going to beat an exotic modern vehicle. It's the drivers experience. And the magazine proven that the drivers they have suck ass. Unless that driver is a professional.

No one ever said a Camaro was going to beat a modern exotic.

It is 100% clear to me how much a difference the driver makes. That was the whole point of my post. That is precisely why the lap times that Pobst puts down on the same day are indeed meaningful. Same driver, same day shows real results. Sorry if you can't swallow that.

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