Jalopnik Review of the EB

[Jamo]

Considering the Mustang II is almost 1,000 pounds lighter ....

I've never figured out why Ford and GM design their Mustangs and Camaros on such heavy frames nowadays. If the back seat was more substantial, like in a Challenger, that would be one thing. But it's almost useless anyway.
I know there is a lot of federal requirements that add weight, but it isn't 800 lbs worth. That Camaro is very heavy and I don't knwo why they made it that way. It didn't use to be.

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[wildsailor]

I've never figured out why Ford and GM design their Mustangs and Camaros on such heavy frames nowadays. If the back seat was more substantial, like in a Challenger, that would be one thing. But it's almost useless anyway.
I know there is a lot of federal requirements that add weight, but it isn't 800 lbs worth. That Camaro is very heavy and I don't knwo why they made it that way. It didn't use to be.

The MN12 Thunderbird in 1989 went the way of the 2015 Mustang in that it was lower and wider than the outgoing model and adopted independent rear suspension. It gained 400 lbs in the process. I suspect the body structure and subframes for mounting the independent rear may have something to do with it.

Gosh, that MN12 Supercoupe was an awesome car!

 

[BmacIL]

I've never figured out why Ford and GM design their Mustangs and Camaros on such heavy frames nowadays. If the back seat was more substantial, like in a Challenger, that would be one thing. But it's almost useless anyway.
I know there is a lot of federal requirements that add weight, but it isn't 800 lbs worth. That Camaro is very heavy and I don't knwo why they made it that way. It didn't use to be.

Fed requirements for crash safety
Elective crash safety improvements (above and beyond, to get 5 star)
Lots of electronics (the wiring and control modules are heavy)
Lots of sound deadening

These things are not unique to the Mustang.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Fed requirements for crash safety
Elective crash safety improvements (above and beyond, to get 5 star)
Lots of electronics (the wiring and control modules are heavy)
Lots of sound deadening

These things are not unique to the Mustang.

The new Miata weighs 2332 pounds. They managed to do that with modern crash safety and electronics in mind.

 

[Jamo]

The new Miata weighs 2332 pounds. They managed to do that with modern crash safety and electronics in mind.

Right. The federalizations aren't 800 lbs.

 

[packerfan]

The new miata also has way less sheet metal due to it being a much smaller car to begin with.

 

[BmacIL]

The new Miata weighs 2332 pounds. They managed to do that with modern crash safety and electronics in mind.

It's certainly possible to do. I have to give a lot of credit to Mazda for pulling that off and not resorting to expensive lightweighting materials all over. Being an engineer in the industry, I wish that kind of discipline to weight savings was adhered to all the time. It is very difficult to do, and requires excellent leadership.

That said, I'm certain the new Miata is far less refined/quiet for road/impact noise on the highway than the Mustang.

 

[wildsailor]

The new miata also has way less sheet metal due to it being a much smaller car to begin with.

Uh, yup. And the Focus is pretty light too. But, these cars are not structured to hold the weight of the V8 and put 400HP to the road. The weight and loads generated with this car are enormous when you take inertia into account.

 

[JonnyMustang]

Uh, yup. And the Focus is pretty light too. But, these cars are not structured to hold the weight of the V8 and put 400HP to the road. The weight and loads generated with this car are enormous when you take inertia into account.

Yep, the Mustang wears too many hats. This isn't a new phenomenon. Didn't the 1st gen mustang gain weight rather quickly? It wasn't really designed for a big v8 (it was essentially a Falcon) but as the v8 become more and more popular, the Mustang ballooned. Then they pushed the reset button during the oil crisis and it's been climbing ever since. I wonder if CAFE will push the reset button in 2025?

 

[Jamo]

Uh, yup. And the Focus is pretty light too. But, these cars are not structured to hold the weight of the V8 and put 400HP to the road. The weight and loads generated with this car are enormous when you take inertia into account.

The Fiesta is really light weight. I can't figure out why they don't make a 2 door coupe Fiesta ST. It would be a real screamer. I'd buy two of them.

 

[Guardstang]

I think its a miracle how much technology is packed into todays Mustang that wasn't in a 1971 Mustang, crumple zones, lots of airbags, infotainment systems, electronic guardians, independent rear end just to name a few and the present cars weigh maybe 200lbs more?

 

[benanderson89]

The Fiesta is really light weight. I can't figure out why they don't make a 2 door coupe Fiesta ST. It would be a real screamer. I'd buy two of them.

Its strange how the USA never gets any of the 3-door hatchback models. It DOES exist, it just isn't sold over there and it looks 1000% better than the 5-door. Hell, I don't think the 5-door ST is even sold here in Europe. We only get the 3-door "Coupé".

There's a company in Europe that will also take a factory Fiesta and tune it up to 270hp for a pretty penny, with all the extras needed to make it a track monster but also still a viable DD.

Uh, yup. And the Focus is pretty light too. But, these cars are not structured to hold the weight of the V8 and put 400HP to the road. The weight and loads generated with this car are enormous when you take inertia into account.

The Focus is actually really heavy for a hatchback - its not far off 1.5tonnes (1437kg for an ST-3). A C7 weighs 1496kg!

That plus its rudimentary suspension is why it Torque steers like a maniac and why its 0-60 is a rather poor 6.5s. 250hp should be a lot quicker. A 217hp Golf GTi and 201hp Kia Pro_Cee'd GT match and come very close (respectively) to the Focus ST with much less (if any) Torque steer at 6.5 and 6.7s since they both weigh around 1330~1350kgs.

Between the Focus and the Fiesta ST, its the Fiesta you want unless you want a wagon.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Its strange how the USA never gets any of the 3-door hatchback models. It DOES exist, it just isn't sold over there and it looks 1000% better than the 5-door. Hell, I don't think the 5-door ST is even sold here in Europe. We only get the 3-door "Coupé".

They're not sold here because hatchbacks have always been seen as profoundly, deeply uncool. Hatchbacks have always been the cars for people who can't afford to buy real cars -- they're seen as the bottom of the automotive heirarchy, and there's something of a social stigma attached to owning one. Americans are very big on flashing their money around, and a hatchback is automatically seen as a "poor people's" car.

This is why the Audi A3 was a failure in its previous generation (when it was sold here only as a hatchback) and has been wildly succesful this generation (when it is sold only as a sedan). It's also why Volkswagen sells about 3 Jettas in the U.S. for every 1 Golf / GTI it sells here. People who buy "hot hatches" here are almost strictly limited to young people, for the dual reasons that a) they're too young to remember the profound social stigma against Honda / Hyundai hatchbacks from the 1980's and have grown up with "hot hatch" as a term that's been bandied about in video games and films in the last decade or so, and b) they're young and thus can get away with driving around in "cheap" performance cars. You'll almost never see somebody over 50 buying a hatchback in the U.S., and that's where the real money is for car companies -- by the time people get older, they've got more money to spend and use it to buy the next bigger class of sedan or (more likely) a crossover.

It's also why station wagons have virtually disappeared in the U.S., because of the perceived "uncoolness" -- I can count on one hand the number of station wagons (or "estate cars" as you guys call them) that are available for sale in the U.S. from companies that don't at least pretend that they're selling you a crossover. There's the Jetta Sportwagen (VW sells 20 times more Jetta sedans than Jetta wagons), The BMW 3 Series and Mercedes E Class wagons, and... that's about it. Volvo markets the XC60 and XC70 as crossovers (actually it calls the XC60 an SUV). Audi doesn't even sell any Avant models in the U.S. any more, except the electric-only A3 Sportback e-tron.

Americans want sedans or crossovers. If they have more money, they move up to a bigger class of car. It's a different market from you guys.

 

[OppoLock]

The Miata also lost about four inches in overall length...

Imagine losing four inches on the S550? How much of that rear seat spacing would you be willing to lose?

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

The Miata also lost about four inches in overall length...

Imagine losing four inches on the S550? How much of that rear seat spacing would you be willing to lose?

It could lose four inches of rear overhang without too much difficulty.

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