2017 Ford Mustang will outperform Chevy Camaro in every way

[thePill]

A family member has a C7 Z51 that I just installed Corsa Exhaust on. They (Corsa) retrain the factory "valve." It was a fairly simple and straight forward install. However it does add an extra step to installation. I think it also aids in sound reduction when it goes into V4 mode.

Overhead Cams would have prevented all of this for sure...

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[1320']

The advantage the ZL1 had over the GT500 was the availability of the automatic transmission. The CTS-V has the LT4 paired to the auto, and with the extra cooling capacity built into the car it would seem that Team Camaro has anticipated a LT4 variant.

I suspect a more capable primary radiator will be added for any LT4 drivetrain and given the prototype that was spied with a fully camo'd and obscured front end it would appear that GM is going to make substantial changes to the facia to accommodate extra cooling.

As for the LT1..time will tell. While a very capable and strong engine it does seem they're having more problems with it than when the LS3 bowed in 2007. Team Camaro is lucky that very costly lessons were suffered by the Corvette

 

[thePill]

The advantage the ZL1 had over the GT500 was the availability of the automatic transmission. The CTS-V has the LT4 paired to the auto, and with the extra cooling capacity built into the car it would seem that Team Camaro has anticipated a LT4 variant.

I suspect a more capable primary radiator will be added for any LT4 drivetrain and given the prototype that was spied with a fully camo'd and obscured front end it would appear that GM is going to make substantial changes to the facia to accommodate extra cooling.

As for the LT1..time will tell. While a very capable and strong engine it does seem they're having more problems with it than when the LS3 bowed in 2007. Team Camaro is lucky that very costly lessons were suffered by the Corvette

Did you see the SS auto's first gear ratio?!?! Holysh!t!!!

 

[Erik427]

Did you see the SS auto's first gear ratio?!?! Holysh!t!!!

I missed that part. What's the ratio?

 

[thePill]

I missed that part. What's the ratio?

4.5x

I think 4.54 or 4.56

 

[1320']

Did you see the SS auto's first gear ratio?!?! Holysh!t!!!

Yep.

A LT4 auto Camaro would need a 2.5x or 2.6x final ratio to help control that power and torque multiplication.

A LT4 Camaro with NPP, MRC and an automatic will likely be a $67,000 car to start..maybe 68,000.

Looking at how GM has placed pricing and equipment it would seem they want to position the 2LT V6 as the price point replacement for the 5th Gen 1SS.

If Ford was smart they would bring out the 2017 Mustang with aluminum doors, K member and suspension bits, with an optional 10 speed auto and the GT 350'S active/variable exhaust available. Include a version of the Voodoo ' s intake with the CMCV'S to replace that 6,500 RPM bottleneck and revise the tune to get 450 HP and 410 TQ. The 10 speed should offset any economy losses.

Shave 75lbs out of the car, increase performance and keep the price around 34,500 to start and 36,000 with and auto, or 36,499 with the auto+ active exhaust.

That would put an automatic GT 5.0 at..3,650lbs with a transmission that can keep the Coyote at peak TQ with each shift when pulling and very low rpm when cruising.

 

[thePill]

Careful...

We don't need a 3600lbs, $45,000 GT right now. This car is selling well, so well Ford can't meet demand (or it's the "No soup for you" approach) and it's actually making some customers nuts for no reason.

The GT's MSRP will likely get close to $39,995 before Gen 7. All in good time... The Mustang will survive another 50 years on this continued strategy, the Camaro lives each Model Year like it's the last.

The GT we got in '15 was far beyond what I expected, all except weight which is a content demand issue as well as safety.

All 3 of my sons are getting V8 Mustang's... when that happens, I want 35 f@ckin' airbags, remote performance access and shut off and access to all 22 cameras via iPhone 17...


...and a Google Emergency Return Home GPS System...

 

[mustang_guy]

I hate adding to further speculation but...


The SS has a "valve" in the exhaust to build back pressure. I guess this is an intricate function of the new Active Fuel Management... is that correct???

Anyway, this valve (pictured below) will more than likely cause additional complications if Aftermarket Exhaust is used. I'm not sure if this is used in the C7 but it would seem removing this will have an effect on the AFM.

I'm also not sure if manuals get AFM or not...

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/t31.0-8/12002392_1028925410472557_8812741567440082718_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9[IMG][/quote]
holy shit. And people thought the s550 didn't have much room in the engine bay compared to the s197 Coyote. Lol have fun fitting a centri blower in there.:lol:

 

[1320']

Careful...

We don't need a 3600lbs, $45,000 GT right now. This car is selling well, so well Ford can't meet demand (or it's the "No soup for you" approach) and it's actually making some customers nuts for no reason.

The GT's MSRP will likely get close to $39,995 before Gen 7. All in good time... The Mustang will survive another 50 years on this continued strategy, the Camaro lives each Model Year like it's the last.

The GT we got in '15 was far beyond what I expected, all except weight which is a content demand issue as well as safety.

All 3 of my sons are getting V8 Mustang's... when that happens, I want 35 f@ckin' airbags, remote performance access and shut off and access to all 22 cameras via iPhone 17...


...and a Google Emergency Return Home GPS System...

While price is an issue, even at 36,500 as I showed it would still be $3,500 cheaper than a similarly equipped 1SS.

I just think Ford does need to keep the Mustang fresh..GM got complacent with the 5th Gen and the Mustang mostly kept up in the last S197 years and has absolutely demolished the Camaro this year.

Also, manuals get no AFM. The motors and equipment are identical but the manuals are tuned out.

 

[thePill]

holy shit. And people thought the s550 didn't have much room in the engine bay compared to the s197 Coyote. Lol have fun fitting a centri blower in there.:lol:

They may need to change the hood too. We will need to see if the "shrink-wrapped" Camaro hood will support a potential intake height increase.


Doubt it...


One reason I think Ford kept the higher hood was to continue 3rd party SC development, as well as their own. Once SC's are out, that hood will come down via GT350. Once turbos take over that is...

 

[mustang_guy]

They may need to change the hood too. We will need to see if the "shrink-wrapped" Camaro hood will support a potential intake height increase.


Doubt it...


One reason I think Ford kept the higher hood was to continue 3rd party SC development, as well as their own. Once SC's are out, that hood will come down via GT350. Once turbos take over that is...

I hope they keep the supercharger thing going. It gives us more options. dont get me wrong i love turbos too but its nice being able to make the same power for cheaper. Th gm guys are very limited on pd blower selection and only on certain applications if i recall right. Which is a shame for them.

 

[thePill]

The SS retains the ALL STEEL differential while the Ecoduke and auto V6 get an aluminum cap. I believe the CTS's steel IRS was used instead of the ATS's mostly aluminum.

I think the rear diff, IRS and half shafts is where the SS gains 25-35lbs over the ATS-V, another 20lbs in the exhaust... Maybe 40lbs in the wheels/tires... about 50lbs in the BIW and panels... there are a few areas the ATS is heavier, but not many...


I don't know guys, even an estimated 3770lbs seems difficult...

 

[1320']

I think they can hit 3,750, but the trouble is that's already with a lot of factory light weight components. It will be more difficult than normal to pull weight out of it. The Mustang however still has plenty of room to trim poundage.

 

[02gtnh]

I think they can hit 3,750, but the trouble is that's already with a lot of factory light weight components. It will be more difficult than normal to pull weight out of it. The Mustang however still has plenty of room to trim poundage.

You are correct. the only way I can see any weight loss is going to smaller tires and wheels, but that will effect handeling. The muffler may be another, but that muffler could be just sheet metal over to muffler for aerodynamics. But other then that, not much more. Can't really see much coming off the GT either tho.

 

[1320']

You are correct. the only way I can see any weight loss is going to smaller tires and wheels, but that will effect handeling. The muffler may be another, but that muffler could be just sheet metal over to muffler for aerodynamics. But other then that, not much more. Can't really see much coming off the GT either tho.

There isn't alot that can come out of the GT, but there is more than the Camaro.

K member, IRS subframe, suspension components, dash structure, wtc.

Hundreds of pounds? Nope. A solid 50-75? Sure. More money? Yep, dramatically more? Nope.

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