Wengerd Is the King for Tuning!!

[hlfbkd420]

It’s not necessarily the base tune that’s important, but more so the changes needed made for your setup, the trans tuning, getting emails answered and getting your car dialed in how you prefer it.

I driven a few cars that used 2 different tuners and what a difference.
Then when i got back in my own car mine felt like a hot knife into butter shifting compared the other 2 cars.

Wengerd has been great in this respect. He has been taking care of my car and needs for awhile now and actually "listens" to me when I have issues or something unexpected pops up. After the horror stories I've read about the big names and how long it takes for revisions (if you get a response at all), he is phenomenal. I don't think I've waited more than a couple days to hear back and that was only because it was a holiday or I was drunk at 2am and emailed him.. LOL. Even then I've probably heard back from him in less that 24 hours!

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[Wengerd Performance]

Yes and no. The "base" tune or approach to things like idle control, shift strategies, etc can have drastic swings in how well mannered the car is.

I think it's kinda the opposite. Any numbskull can learn how to get the tune to run correct AFR and timing based on your configuration, the more difficult part is the underlying base features which are in many cases turned off or modified away from an OE Ford file to make modifications work.

The reason I referenced the guys above is that no one really knew or realized that boost/torque by gear was possible within the framework of the Ford calibration. It's possible, it's just that virtually no wide scale tuners have explored how to properly employ it. The accepted solution is just to run a boost controller or something external to the PCM.

The other aspect is protections and what happens when things aren't going the way they're supposed to go. There are parameters which would allow many more protections within the Ford architecture to prevent catastrophic nuke events than most tuners utilize. Sending a DTC or a MIL light isn't generally an effective strategy to saving a motor. So if there's a sudden loss in fuel pressure or oil pressure, or even better, a significant change, an immediate shut down of the party is possible, but not employed by most common tunes. The result? You smoke your motor.

I dropped a small fortune on the benefits of an M150 system and through these forums I'm finding out that nearly ALL of the benefits are possible through the Ford PCM/Calibration, it just takes a tuner who's on the cutting edge and understands it enough to feature things like limiting air load by gear, protection strategies, etc.

At this point with PCMtech offering a workaround for true flex mapping, the ONLY thing left that MOTEC can do that technically can't be done is the traction control strategies with slip aims. But a good portion of the MOTEC benefits are left off the table because again, most tuners just aren't aware or interested in putting that much time/effort into the tune. My car idles like a dream now. No more stupid cold start nonsense. So there are a few obscure benefits to a separate/stand alone PCM, but things like true flex fuel (from a sensor input), limiting torque output by gear and rpm are all possible (you just wouldn't know it because it's not offered by many/most tuners).

Softwares like pcm tech are adding additional code to the Ford operating system to get these functions to work.

Just like HP tuners has a code patch for the transbrake.

The Ford original os has nothing close to that in order to make the tbrake function.

Roush has Additional safety limits like MCT to limit load (safety thing)

Engineers are just adding in code for additional features and is not something Ford offered In the stock code.

And we are always limited to the definitions the engineers for said software have defined in the binary which is a small percentage of the Ford code.

Motec still has many advantages for a full out race build as ypu are not at the limitations of the original Ford os.

Egt per cyl, advanced traction control, suspension measurements input for no prep and many other things.

Really no limits

 

[skinnyb]

Really wish I could drive someone’s Wengard tuned A10 to see how much better it is.

Come to East TN and I will take you for a RIP . Wengerd is the MAN. I LOVE my tune

 

[Strokerswild]

Really wish I could drive someone’s Wengard tuned A10 to see how much better it is.

It's getting to the point I'd be interested in just seeing if Wengerd could just make me stop hating the A10 in my '19 F150.

The truck doesn't really need more power (or does it?), but I've disliked the shifting of the trans since day one, and downright hate it since buying a new Jeep with the ZF8 last spring.

 

[Finally21]

It's getting to the point I'd be interested in just seeing if Wengerd could just make me stop hating the A10 in my '19 F150.

The truck doesn't really need more power (or does it?), but I've disliked the shifting of the trans since day one, and downright hate it since buying a new Jeep with the ZF8 last spring.

I hated the A10 in my 21GT, then I got a simple 93 tune from Wengerd and my hate went away.

 

[DougS550]

Are you on tdn? Or what tune device?

If you have a rtd ill send over a free file you can try out

Is the RTD Tuning device which comes with the Whipple Kit programmable by after market tuners like you, other than a Whipple specific tune?

 

[Wengerd Performance]

Is the RTD Tuning device which comes with the Whipple Kit programmable by after market tuners like you, other than a Whipple specific tune?

Yes we can use the same whipple RTD

 

[DougS550]

Yes we can use the same whipple RTD

Is it a Plus like I got?

 

[Wengerd Performance]

COrrect. You most likely have the RTD3. THe plus is the older one

 

[Angrey]

Softwares like pcm tech are adding additional code to the Ford operating system to get these functions to work.

Just like HP tuners has a code patch for the transbrake.

The Ford original os has nothing close to that in order to make the tbrake function.

Roush has Additional safety limits like MCT to limit load (safety thing)

Engineers are just adding in code for additional features and is not something Ford offered In the stock code.

And we are always limited to the definitions the engineers for said software have defined in the binary which is a small percentage of the Ford code.

Motec still has many advantages for a full out race build as ypu are not at the limitations of the original Ford os.

Egt per cyl, advanced traction control, suspension measurements input for no prep and many other things.

Really no limits

The 3 biggest selling points of the Motec (at the time) were A) Traction/torque control and slip B) True Flex fuel with a positive displacement blower and C) Boost/torque control by gear (which ties a little into A, just a more proactive means of keeping the wheel spin managed).

There are other lesser/incremental benefits, the 3 stage launch feature, engine protections, etc.

If some of the recent developments had been available at the time, I'd have seriously considered a different route (and possibly even chosen PCMtech).

PCMtech gives the ability for external inputs (aka ethanol sensor) for "user selected" flex fuel (not as sophisticated as fill up, turn it on and mash the gas, but not exactly a huge hassle to read the measurement and then select the appropriate map/mode and go on your way).

Then, recently it's been shown that it's possible to do torque/air load by gear with a PD blower, so 2 out of the 3 major MOTEC advantages are possible, but not common among big name tuning shops (PCMtech is becoming more familiar to everyone).

You've differentiated yourself through service and quality, but there's another opportunity and that's a deeper dive into torque management by gear, which is ESPECIALLY beneficial to positive displacement blower guys (who's only real option to that was the MOTEC or "smooth boost" which basically voids any warranties).

Imagine a tune that's truly customized and setup for my car's torque and gearing setup so that it doesn't haze the tires and overrun every gear or that I don't have to calibrate my right foot to within a micrometer in order to keep it from losing traction.

There are dozens of tuners out there that can setup the car to make good power/torque and send you out the door. On a 800 rwhp setup, that mostly works. But for 4 digit power and 800+ rwtq, the ability to modulate torque by gear is huge. Before that was really only an option for Motec or turbo guys through a sophisticated (and admittedly expensive) boost controller setup.

Now, it's been demonstrated that the Ford PCM is capable of limiting air load by gear and thus at least proactively dialing in the ouput of the car to just at or over what the traction can handle. HUGE BENEFIT. But no common tuners offer it.

Again, for the 700-850 rwhp crowd, maybe that's not as big of an issue. But to the big boy power PD guys, especially if they're running a 150 mm throttle body, being able to control the torque through something other than a touchy pedal is a huge improvement.

Guys like @engineermike are also trailblazing the world of fuel management and proving that the old "Just put a fore triple in it" days are unnecessary.

There's a LOT more capability in the Ford PCM than what most of the tuning market is offering. From output modulation, now to what PCMtech is bringing to the table to big power on returnless fuel, I personally think there's an opportunity for better, more custom tuning offerings that closes the gap between the factory PCM and crazy expensive aftermarket systems like MOTEC or Holly Dominator or Fueltech.

The MOTEC is awesome. But it's also absurdly cost prohibitive. The Ford PCM is CAPABLE of achieving much of what it can do (for practical street purposes) but it's unfortunate the most of the market is a max output, slap it on and make good power and away you go tuning.

 

[DougS550]

COrrect. You most likely have the RTD3. THe plus is the older one

This is the one I just bought from your website with my credits and it has your name on it? There is no identifiable part numbers telling which model RTD I actually have?

 

[Wengerd Performance]

This is the one I just bought from your website with my credits and it has your name on it? There is no identifiable part numbers telling which model RTD I actually have?

That is a 3. The newest one

 

[DougS550]

That is a 3. The newest one

Thanks. Its because I need to sell the one that came with my whipple kit for I never used it

 

[WildHorse]

Hmmmm may have to try Wengerd.. getting stick of dealing with my clutch protection kicking in that nobody can seem to figure out.

 

[blakeman8192]

+1 my tune and experience with Wengerd has been awesome

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