MY 19 GT350 vs any GT350R?

[svttim]

And for the price of an R I could easily make that too. Your last statement is 100% right. You're paying for it to be done off the showroom floor. My rebuttal was the the person who thinks that you can't build a Mustang to equal or better it for less. That's utterly false. You're paying for it to be 1) new with a warranty, 2) specialness of the engine and the unique looks, and 3) not having to do any math or pay someone to do math to make it substantially quicker/better performing.

If your referring to my post, you misread it. You cant take a base 350 and make it faster without paying more then an R. The price difference between the 2 is not different enough. You can buy a GT and make it faster although significantly faster is a matter of conjecture. I can take an 82 LX and beat a stock GT and spend less.

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[Rev Happy]

he's saying that for $70k you could buy a GT and make it faster around a track than an R.

These types of statements always get me. Been there done that and at the end of the day, you're going to have a car that you threw thousands of dollars into to make "better". I had a 96 Cobra that had everything. Full MM tubular front end, built IRS, Brembos, built motor, Vortech, HREs, etc. Looking back I wish I would have sold that car way before I went down that path. At the end of the day, it was still 20+ year old mustang that when it came time to sell it, I got literally nothing back from all the mods I did. Sure a modern GT shares the S550 platform in this scenario, but in the end I'd chose a stock GT350 all day everyday over that.

This is my .02 cents, I already know I will get some hate, but this is my thoughts, coming from being a Porsche guy. My understanding from listening to Randy's comments when comparing the 2 versions, and the comments from the head of Ford Performance was ...."it's most all in the shoes". "I can really feel the added grip of the R's cups". etc etc. While not quite reaching the amazing featherweight of the carbon wheels, (which I seem to trip on a set of these for sale near constantly....so strange for a low production rim), adding forged wheels that are lighter then stock is easy. And can be just resold later. I'd think underneath it all most of us really know a 2019 and up base with a set of Forgeline or HRE super lightweight rims and the more aggressive Cup 2 version tire than the base's "cup 2 lite" would bring the 2 models REALLY close, the hardcore R fans may tell themselves "he still just doesn't get it", but I think I do, and posters and sales people and badges won't change that. With forged rim/ standard cup 2's, the R then would still have some, but limited advantages (different 'settings' doesn't mean all that much better, but if for nothing else, Marketing would HAVE to make things different to get people to get buy in). The wing on the R is amazing but a base swing with Gurney is going to keep your wheels down, your not going to fly away, trust me, its enough your not going to think "gee, if only I had even more down-force on the tail for the track days". The swing is on the newest base GT500 and Mach 1's for a reason. I think it would be so minor that the drivers skills would negate any difference, which is hands down the most important variable you can't gimmick or "buy" your way out of. And you would still be way under the prices of an R and you can always sell off the forged rims separately when done. So...on one hand, you have the base... less chin splitter curb rash, cooled seats...back seat standard (best part is it folds flat and it's huge trunk then) costs less money, etc ..... but on the other hand, your don't have designer, purebred dog breeder bragging rights. I watched my share of fancy cars, including these Shelby's, get beat on the track by the Focus and Hellcats, cuz' their drivers were really good. Let's face it, none of these are 'real' race cars like the GT4, it's just how close to that you want to live with day to day and I feel with such a small difference, I'd prefer the better daily car as would my particular passenger taking this bad-ass on trips. If Fords own numbers show how close performance-wise they are and that's NOT with forged wheels and full bore Cup 2's, I for one am convinced. But your mileage may vary

Question for you, have you driven an R model? Stock for stock, it is the faster car. There's no marketing about it.

To the OP, what aftermarket Carbon Fiber wheels were you looking at if you went that route? Normally with these, the barrels are the only pieces that are Carbon while the center is still aluminum. Those wheels are still about 4K a piece. If you plan to buy a GT350 new and wanted to replicate an R model with new carbon fiber wheels, you could not do it for $12,995 dollars which is the price Ford charges for the 920A package.

The R model isn't for everybody. Some people love them, and others don't think they're worth it. It is what it is. You really can't go wrong with either. From reading all your post in this thread, I'd recommend a 2019+ GT350. Good luck.

 

[GT30fan]

Is the OP going for stock vs stock? That’s what I was assuming.

Agreed, he may not want to run out and get spendy wheels and tires trying to get the base closer to an R. Very true. And even if you do it may be the R has an edge, The question is, if you have a set of nice stock street wheels, maybe PS4 or Conti with less tramline then either, so it's an absolute joy on the street with no fishing pole pull, then have a set some light forged wheels with true track tires, even if you are still less then an R, even if an R is 01% faster I think it is close enough that the better driver will win no matter which car he picks. My thoughts are for my needs anyways, so I feel I 'win' with whichever is the better street car where I use mine 90% of the time, And know it's a close call with the 2nd set of rims are on for track day. Again, just my .02 cents, I love the R very much, however it wasn't the right price versus comfort versus ahead enough performance wise for me to bite, awesome as it is

 

[honeybadger]

Great thread, enjoyable and interesting read.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the R has a better radiator. I may have imagined this, but it wasn't mentioned anywhere. I know from experience how important that is for serious track use.

The OEM radiator is the same for the 350 and 350R - it's a slight upgrade from the Ecoboost/GT, though.

If your referring to my post, you misread it. You cant take a base 350 and make it faster without paying more then an R. The price difference between the 2 is not different enough. You can buy a GT and make it faster although significantly faster is a matter of conjecture. I can take an 82 LX and beat a stock GT and spend less.

This is just so not true it's not even a debate. Give me $2K for tires and I'll do it. Give me $5K and I'll make it 5 seconds a lap faster at COTA.

 

[Rusherific]

This is just so not true it's not even a debate. Give me $2K for tires and I'll do it. Give me $5K and I'll make it 5 seconds a lap faster at COTA.

Just curious, what would you do with 5k?

 

[honeybadger]

Just curious, what would you do with 5k?

Wing, Splitter, engine tune, catless mid pipes, and Hoosiers. It'd stomp an R all day long.

It'd be louder, have less approach angle, and no warranty - but it'd be faster. Not arguing that's a better direction for OP (hell, it rarely is), but I just can't get behind claiming you can't beat an R for the same money. It's just not true. As Brian already said, you're paying for a new warranty, the badass OEM CF parts, special-ness, and completed chassis tuning.

 

[DrumReaper]

Wing, Splitter, engine tune, catless mid pipes, and Hoosiers. It'd stomp an R all day long.

It'd be louder, have less approach angle, and no warranty - but it'd be faster. Not arguing that's a better direction for OP (hell, it rarely is), but I just can't get behind claiming you can't beat an R for the same money. It's just not true. As Brian already said, you're paying for a new warranty, the badass OEM CF parts, special-ness, and completed chassis tuning.

Don’t forget choice... you’re paying for that too. Lol

 

[Rusherific]

Wing, Splitter, engine tune, catless mid pipes, and Hoosiers. It'd stomp an R all day long.

It'd be louder, have less approach angle, and no warranty - but it'd be faster. Not arguing that's a better direction for OP (hell, it rarely is), but I just can't get behind claiming you can't beat an R for the same money. It's just not true. As Brian already said, you're paying for a new warranty, the badass OEM CF parts, special-ness, and completed chassis tuning.

Oh yeah I'm not disagreeing, just wanted to know what you would actually do.

I guess in my head I wasn't even counting easy bolt on stuff like that which are also straight upgrades to the R without losing or replacing the advantages it already has. But obviously that's not the same discussion as what's the cheapest laptime.

 

[DrumReaper]

Oh yeah I'm not disagreeing, just wanted to know what you would actually do.

I guess in my head I wasn't even counting easy bolt on stuff like that which are also straight upgrades to the R without losing or replacing the advantages it already has. But obviously that's not the same discussion as what's the cheapest laptime.

What’s really gonna burn the noodle is if you did the same changes, save wheels, to a R... what would we target then? ;)

 

[honeybadger]

Oh yeah I'm not disagreeing, just wanted to know what you would actually do.

I guess in my head I wasn't even counting easy bolt on stuff like that which are also straight upgrades to the R without losing or replacing the advantages it already has. But obviously that's not the same discussion as what's the cheapest laptime.

Agreed. But most of those replace the advantages the R has (tires + aero), so it's more cost effective to start with a non-R IF your goal to eventually go big aero, aftermarket coil overs, etc.. If you're tracking your car 20+ days a year, I wouldn't run the CF wheels. Wheels are a consumable (no matter if forged or CF) and they're just too much for that. Plus, any serious track use needs a couple sets (I personally have wets, street R compounds, and slicks on any given weekend).

If were to be talking about building a serious track toy, I'd even recommend going to base GT and upgrading from there - add a bigger radiator, oil cooler, trans cooler, throw on coilovers, big aero, bigger brakes, tune the motor, gut the car. Etc. You could build a seriously lethal race car for $80K starting with a used base GT.

It's really about goals and priorities. Can't really beat an R off the showroom. Plus resale is killer. Want to do some fairly big mods? Non-R is better (IMHO). Want most of the R performance without spending $10K, non-R is better. Want to build the baddest mustang on the planet? Base GT.

Want to waste a ton of $$$ being a guinea pig building Voodoo race motors? Just follow my path

 

[Seven]

Wing, Splitter, engine tune, catless mid pipes, and Hoosiers. It'd stomp an R all day long.

It'd be louder, have less approach angle, and no warranty - but it'd be faster.

I'd do the tune/headers/x-pipe likely either way.
Hoosiers might be a thing either way too.

Would probably do it with an R as well (and keep the stock parts for resale)



I think at this point I'm more interested in a 2019 MY than I am about R vs non-R

 

[Rev Happy]

Want to build the baddest mustang on the planet? Base GT.

Sure but can we both agree that it doesn't look as cool as doing it in a GT350?

 

[Rusherific]

Agreed. But most of those replace the advantages the R has (tires + aero), so it's more cost effective to start with a non-R IF your goal to eventually go big aero, aftermarket coil overs, etc.. If you're tracking your car 20+ days a year, I wouldn't run the CF wheels. Wheels are a consumable (no matter if forged or CF) and they're just too much for that. Plus, any serious track use needs a couple sets (I personally have wets, street R compounds, and slicks on any given weekend).

I'm just a newbie obviously but I remember reading somewhere about the R wing only making like 60lbs downforce over the base, so I am surprised if that plus a slightly longer front splitter is making that huge a difference from the regular 350, but i guess it depends on the track!

But yeah the first thing I did even before I had the car was order a second set of wheels, but now I've been going back and forth on which I should use for what. I'm not going to be doing anything close to 20 track days a year, and won't exactly be going 10/10ths for awhile, if ever in this car, so I was figuring keeping the CFs with R compounds for track days would actually be safest and the most fun. But since actually driving the car around town I've realized driving them on the street just isn't that big a deal, at least if you're not a complete idiot. In the end the cost of scratching or even wadding up entirely one of the CF's in the car's lifetime is just not something that keeps me up at night, I wouldn't have gotten the car if I was gonna worry about that all the time. But I guess beating all 4 to hell on the track more or less guaranteed is probably worse than potentially sacrificing one to the pothole gods on the street. Either way I can't decide what to do now...

 

[Rusherific]

I'd do the tune/headers/x-pipe likely either way.
Hoosiers might be a thing either way too.

Would probably do it with an R as well (and keep the stock parts for resale)



I think at this point I'm more interested in a 2019 MY than I am about R vs non-R

I guess it all depends then on what you can find and for what price. Either way congrats on making a shitshow of a thread! You really got all us dorks on here going

 

[Rev Happy]

I'm just a newbie obviously but I remember reading somewhere about the R wing only making like 60lbs downforce over the base, so I am surprised if that plus a slightly longer front splitter is making that huge a difference from the regular 350, but i guess it depends on the track!

But yeah the first thing I did even before I had the car was order a second set of wheels, but now I've been going back and forth on which I should use for what. I'm not going to be doing anything close to 20 track days a year, and won't exactly be going 10/10ths for awhile, if ever in this car, so I was figuring keeping the CFs with R compounds for track days would actually be safest and the most fun. But since actually driving the car around town I've realized driving them on the street just isn't that big a deal, at least if you're not a complete idiot. In the end the cost of scratching or even wadding up entirely one of the CF's in the car's lifetime is just not something that keeps me up at night, I wouldn't have gotten the car if I was gonna worry about that all the time. But I guess beating all 4 to hell on the track more or less guaranteed is probably worse than potentially sacrificing one to the pothole gods on the street. Either way I can't decide what to do now...

I think you have a greater chance of getting a rock stock in between the wheel and the caliper over damaging the wheel on a pothole. But ya I hear ya. If something happens to my wheels I'll deal with it.

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