Interesting drag race

[Bob Lob Law]

Plus... Who cares about a corvette? I've never had anyone driving one try to race me.. They just hard park.

I've had 1 C8 try to play, but, he was a Z06. I had a supercharged C6 try to play on the way into work this morning. He would have smashed me, but, I had to turn.

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[EFI]

2023 Production Numbers:
Mustang - 61,165
Corvette - 53,807

Not too far off each other

This year it's getting there with the new C8 vs. last MY of the S550...but not sure you can quite compare sales numbers over the years. Most years it's in the tens of thousands difference, as high as 88k and 700k difference over the last 13 years.

	Mustang	Corvette	Difference
2010​	73,716​	12,194​	-61,522​
2011​	70,438​	13,596​	-56,842​
2012​	82,995​	11,647​	-71,348​
2013​	77,186​	13,466​	-63,720​
2014​	82,635​	37,288​	-45,347​
2015​	122,349​	34,240​	-88,109​
2016​	105,932​	40,689​	-65,243​
2017​	81,866​	22,801​	-59,065​
2018​	75,842​	9,686​	-66,156​
2019​	72,489​	34,822​	-37,667​
2020​	61,090​	20,368​	-40,722​
2021​	52,384​	26,216​	-26,168​
2022​	47,566​	34,510​	-13,056​
2023​	61,165​	53,807​	-7,358​
Total	1,066,653​	365,330​	-701,323​

 

[SnowFox]

Honestly, I'm not surprised. Since the S550 debuted in 2015, the GT's performance has remained pretty constant. You could even say stagnated. Whether it's 435 horsepower or 480 something, any power increases have been negated by weight gain. Hell, you could go back even further; the S197 with the 412 horsepower Coyote was about as fast as either the S550 and S650 GT's.

The power plant and transmissions are just fine and more than ample. Those aren't the problems. It's weight and lack of rear end sophistication.

In order for the Mustang to enter into the next level of performance, Ford needs to start with a clean sheet. A 9/10th's sized Mustang. The current car and the S550 before it are simply to large. A Mustang weighing a good 400 pounds less than the current one with a rear architecture devoid of all the slop and crudeness would elevate the GT to another level.

Until Ford takes those steps, no one should expect any meaningful gains. There's a reason that I still have my 2016 GT. Trading up for the "latest and greatest" is simply a sideways move. An exercise in wasteful spending.

I don't entirely agree or disagree but I have been hearing the same type of thing on every mustang refresh since I drove an 80s foxbody. If each one is true I might as well have kept stopped 1996 GT lord no...

Power creep is typically gradual. Sometimes a few larger then normal bumps. But that's like every product and company.

Weight has gone up certainly over the years, but so to has the power to rate ratio in most (not all) instances.

Considering EPA rules have been more stringent than ever, even small power gains from same or similar platform can be more impressive than people give credit for. Cars are getting heavier rules are getting more difficult but cars are still mostly getting faster and more efficient.

Just my 2 cents. I know it doesn't apply to every single car and examples exist to the contrary

 

[robvas]

1985 - 215hp
1987-1995 - 225hp
1996-1998 - 215-225hp
Decent bump up
1999-2004 - 265hp
2005-2010 - 300hp (but the car got bigger etc so not much of a bump)
Big bump up
2011-2014 - 412hp
2015-2017 - 435hp (car gained weight so not really a bump)
Decent bump up
2018-2023 - 460hp (drivetrain improvements as well)
2024 - 480hp (very minor bump up)

 

[SnowFox]

1985 - 215hp
1987-1995 - 225hp
1996-1998 - 215-225hp
Decent bump up
1999-2004 - 265hp
2005-2010 - 300hp (but the car got bigger etc so not much of a bump)
Big bump up
2011-2014 - 412hp
2015-2017 - 435hp (car gained weight so not really a bump)
Decent bump up
2018-2023 - 460hp (drivetrain improvements as well)
2024 - 480hp (very minor bump up)

Now break it down to HP weight ratio over each I would...but I'm driving an ambulance atm

 

[WildHorse]

This year it's getting there with the new C8 vs. last MY of the S550...but not sure you can quite compare sales numbers over the years. Most years it's in the tens of thousands difference, as high as 88k and 700k difference over the last 13 years.

	Mustang	Corvette	Difference
2010​	73,716​	12,194​	-61,522​
2011​	70,438​	13,596​	-56,842​
2012​	82,995​	11,647​	-71,348​
2013​	77,186​	13,466​	-63,720​
2014​	82,635​	37,288​	-45,347​
2015​	122,349​	34,240​	-88,109​
2016​	105,932​	40,689​	-65,243​
2017​	81,866​	22,801​	-59,065​
2018​	75,842​	9,686​	-66,156​
2019​	72,489​	34,822​	-37,667​
2020​	61,090​	20,368​	-40,722​
2021​	52,384​	26,216​	-26,168​
2022​	47,566​	34,510​	-13,056​
2023​	61,165​	53,807​	-7,358​
Total	1,066,653​	365,330​	-701,323​

Those mustangs included 4 and 6 cylinders.

 

[WildHorse]

POINT BEING massive markup in price for relatively few new features and simular-ish performance.

 

[MAGS1]

Base Mustangs still start in the low $30’s (Eco) and low $40’s (GT). Base C8’s start at $70k. If Ford were to move Mustang to a mid engine design, you’re staring at the same price tag. Then people will bitch and moan that Mustang is supposed to be an affordable sports car but now it starts at $70k.

STOP comparing Mustang to Corvette, they do not compete (well, they might now a little with Camaro being gone but still), not even the same kind of car really. 2 seater vs 4 seater, sports car (arguably Supercar) vs grand tourer.

If you’re going to compare Mustang to Corvette, at least do it with the Shelby’s. Those are more along the lines of Corvette competitors IMO.

Screen grab is a 1LT C8, no additional options so bare bones as you can get. You price a lot of Mustang owners out at that level.

 

[SnowFox]

POINT BEING massive markup in price for relatively few new features and simular-ish performance.

This is more a concern for me in The GPU market.

 

[DarthMalice]

And they did. The 15-17 is vastly better than the S197 in all aspects. The 18-23 is vastly better in performance than the 15-17. The S650 is vastly better in interior looks and such.

They all get better in some regards, but you can't honestly expect everything to be significantly better than the previous version while still maintaining a price point. This is still a basic middle of the road car for Ford, not their flagship like the Corvette. And the Corvette had 1 generational leap from C7 to C8...all the others were as minor as the Mustang. The C6 wasn't that much better than the C5, the C7 wasn't that much better than the C6 etc.



For their flagship car. Are they doing the same for the Camaro which is more inline with the Mustang and where it sits in their lineup?

Chevy focused on handling/chassis and lightened the Camaro for the 6th Gen version...what Ford should have done on S650. The 6th GEN Camaro was a beast even though they didn't change much in power if at all through the gen...only high spec Mustangs even came close to it in handling/chassis aspects. Even though it was down on power (well not torque), it handled so well that its numbers were as good if not better across most trims and track tests. I know...Camaro is dead, but that seemed to be more due to stupid decisions they made on styling and some livability issues. From my own foxhole, I wish Ford had grabbed the engineers that did the software work for the 10 speed auto in the Camaro. Ford screwed that up royally compared to the Camaro guys. They even get the hold left paddle feature to select lowest gear and S650 still didn't get it. Same damn transmission.

 

[JetGray_Mach1]

Base Mustangs still start in the low $30’s (Eco) and low $40’s (GT). Base C8’s start at $70k. If Ford were to move Mustang to a mid engine design, you’re staring at the same price tag. Then people will bitch and moan that Mustang is supposed to be an affordable sports car but now it starts at $70k.

STOP comparing Mustang to Corvette, they do not compete (well, they might now a little with Camaro being gone but still), not even the same kind of car really. 2 seater vs 4 seater, sports car (arguably Supercar) vs grand tourer.

If you’re going to compare Mustang to Corvette, at least do it with the Shelby’s. Those are more along the lines of Corvette competitors IMO.

Screen grab is a 1LT C8, no additional options so bare bones as you can get. You price a lot of Mustang owners out at that level.

LOL no matter how many times you point the obvious, they just keep finding ways to make the S650 look bad.

 

[SnowFox]

If p

LOL no matter how many times you point the obvious, they just keep finding ways to make the S650 look bad.

Personally I would never think its bad. It's a fantastic car.

Ford is trying to sell to a market a market that has different ideas of what is good and bad.

If Ford did what I want them to do sales would plumit, most would be priced out of buying one, and the factory would close withen weeks. It's a good thing we all don't get what we want sometimes or we may get nothing at all

 

[WildHorse]

Camaro is dead

For now.. GM dumped almost a billion dollars into the next gen ICE V-8.
9:1 odds it'll come back with a Z-28.

 

[robvas]

GM fucked up not having both port injection and DI on the Camaro

You end up with a stupid barrier at about 600hp before you need to start changing the fuel system big time

 

[RiotfunK]

I looked at the s650. I don’t really like the s650 especially the front end and the lights. Granted the headlights on the s550 aren’t the best, brightness, not looks. But I just like the simpler interior and the looks better. I did look at the 24s. But for me to get into a comparable s650 to what I got in my 22, it is a 25k difference. There’s not 25k in changes. Plus I don’t have auto start stop BS or any DOD or whatever they’re calling it. I have no stupid screen in my field of vision. I have physical buttons for everything and very minimal touch screen ones. I like the dash screen in the s550. It’s where it’s supposed to be. I got a garage queen with 6k miles, it’s a CPO so I have bumper to bumper warranty until the end of 2026 and full powertrain coverage until 2029 included in the price. Better warranty than new and 25k less. Win win

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