23 Mach 1 vs. 24 Dark Horse

[sdskinner73]

I mean it’s not completely junk just overpriced it should have been the same price as the M1 it replaced that would make it a reasonable option. But like most people have said the interior is too cookie cutter SUV screens and then all you’re really paying for is 20 more hp and some grippy tires. A stock pp1 GT is still the best all around option.

I can agree with that. I just mean it’s junk as far as value for your dollar. That’s the whole brand of mustang, and they removed it for this. Mach 1 or PP2 is a way better purchase imo (if tracking is your goal).

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[Hack]

Bumped into little brother at the dealer for service, wow what a beast, beautiful colour, lines and wheel setup is gorgeous, side by side makes my Mach 1 look not so intimidating anymore,
I noticed the dark horse headlights come with the nice light tint on them so of course I decided to go out and get it done myself, the last pic are the headlights with the light tint,,

I guess the DH is younger, but it's also bigger/heavier. I wouldn't really call it little brother myself.

Anyway, thanks for the great pictures. The DH does look really good in my opinion as well. I think S550 rear styling is better, but S650 front styling is better. However - S650 styling does look terrible in certain colors, so I wouldn't debate at all with anyone who says they don't like the S650 front end styling. If you prefer a light colored car, the dark bags under the eyes don't look good at all to me.

Strictly on performance, DH all day. Strictly based on exterior looks, DH again. Factor in price? M1.

According to a quick Google search, Dark Horse seems to be roughly the same speed as the Mach 1 in a straight line ~12.6 seconds quarter mile with manual transmission. The DH is crazy fast on track with those super sticky tires Ford put on it. Faster than a ZL1-1LE on Throttle House's track. But if you put equivalent tires on the Mach 1, I bet they will be nearly equal or the Mach might be slightly faster due to lower weight. Probably depends on track size and driver.

The DH engine durability is probably better on track compared to the Mach 1, since Ford worked hard using some GT350 components to beef up the internals. Most people probably won't use their cars hard enough to find this difference, though. I know I personally would run out of money if I spent a lot of time at the track.

It is around a track. I've not met anyone at the track who said the M1, or GT350 for that matter, is better. All say the DH is a better track weapon. AutoX, the M1 and GT350 have a leg up on it because of the weight.

It's a faster track car. What the numbers on a sheet of paper say is irrelevant.

AFAIK the DH is magazine faster due to the tires. That's why it also set incredible braking numbers even though it uses typical PP1 brakes similar to the Mach 1 and many other Mustangs.

 

[MAGS1]

DH is not that much heavier than a Mach. HP increase probably washes out the weight increase.

 

[young at heart]

There actually was an Elite Package (67D B&O 12-speaker system and incl. Enhanced Security Package)

Exactly.

That was the point I was making.

 

[Rael]

1. The Mach 1 Elite Package is for we who get on track once in a while but who otherwise daily drive our cars with maximum comfort and enjoyment.

2. When I get on track, I don't care much about being faster than anyone else; I'm just having lots of fun with my car without concern for road hazards or .

 

[murick]

@young at heart The "Elite package" was actually a default option for Mach 1 on European market and as such did not have actually a name.
So in figure of speech it sounded a bit funny to find out it was "Elite" in the US, because despite its name the B&O system in it does not sound (sic) anywhere near to premium audio systems in the other brands.

 

[WItoTX]

I guess the DH is younger, but it's also bigger/heavier. I wouldn't really call it little brother myself.

Anyway, thanks for the great pictures. The DH does look really good in my opinion as well. I think S550 rear styling is better, but S650 front styling is better. However - S650 styling does look terrible in certain colors, so I wouldn't debate at all with anyone who says they don't like the S650 front end styling. If you prefer a light colored car, the dark bags under the eyes don't look good at all to me.



According to a quick Google search, Dark Horse seems to be roughly the same speed as the Mach 1 in a straight line ~12.6 seconds quarter mile with manual transmission. The DH is crazy fast on track with those super sticky tires Ford put on it. Faster than a ZL1-1LE on Throttle House's track. But if you put equivalent tires on the Mach 1, I bet they will be nearly equal or the Mach might be slightly faster due to lower weight. Probably depends on track size and driver.

The DH engine durability is probably better on track compared to the Mach 1, since Ford worked hard using some GT350 components to beef up the internals. Most people probably won't use their cars hard enough to find this difference, though. I know I personally would run out of money if I spent a lot of time at the track.



AFAIK the DH is magazine faster due to the tires. That's why it also set incredible braking numbers even though it uses typical PP1 brakes similar to the Mach 1 and many other Mustangs.

My opinion is from multiple people who have run both on various tracks that I personally talked to. Not a lot of talking heads out there I trust.

But again, it's just my opinion.

 

[Hack]

My opinion is from multiple people who have run both on various tracks that I personally talked to. Not a lot of talking heads out there I trust.

But again, it's just my opinion.

I haven't driven either, so ...

Any of the people you talked to run the same tires on both cars? Any specific info such as how much faster on which track? Stock tire life comparisons from these experienced people?

 

[S550HPP]

Having had a '24 GT w premium interior loaner for 3 weeks while they changed my 10R80 and motor mounts IMO the interior is a disaster.

I don't have time to learn and practice the voice prompts to control things.

It takes 3-4 times longer and very distracting to do anything but basic driving functions.

Dark horse looks amazing. Too bad they dropped the ball on the interior when it should have been a sliver of Pagani to be desirable.

As much as I like the S650 exterior and options the interior alone kills it for me, otherwise I'd order a vert.

I'll spend $4K on my interior finish upgrade instead.

 

[robvas]

The DH is crazy fast on track with those super sticky tires Ford put on it. Faster than a ZL1-1LE on Throttle House's track. But if you put equivalent tires on the Mach 1, I bet they will be nearly equal or the Mach might be slightly faster due to lower weight. Probably depends on track size and driver.

Be warned that their times are very different than something like the Lightning lap. Much bigger difference in times (and of course not the exact same cars)

 

[TeeLew]

I don't think that's possible in a significant or feasible way.
So I got myself a 1200 kg 250 hp Mini on steroids and they complement each other in different ways Best of both worlds. And that supercharger whine, damn.

It's definitely not possible if they don't try. From what I see from Ford, they don't even really try, which is disappointing.

Your combo is knocking on the door of what I think is a real Supercar. 1000Kg/400HP is the combo I'd like to see.

 

[Charlemagne]

It's definitely not possible if they don't try. From what I see from Ford, they don't even really try, which is disappointing.

Well it is possible and they just did it with the GTD. With heavy use of carbon fiber and light metals and a matching price. Weight goes down, price goes up, and people are already bitching about price...

 

[TeeLew]

Well it is possible and they just did it with the GTD. With heavy use of carbon fiber and light metals and a matching price. Weight goes down, price goes up, and people are already bitching about price...

Yes and no. The GTD is a halo piece, so it better have _everything_. They have ten orders for every car and not many dollar complaints, there. Why not use exotic materials?

The normal GT could be 250# lighter while spending very little actual money. What they would have to do is engineer the car from the ground up to meet an actual weight goal. From design to stampings to castings, everything has to be pointed towards the goal of losing weight. The engineers have to be given the instruction, "It can't just do the job, it has to do the job in the lightest way possible." That needs to be beaten into them.

I bet there's a minimum of 25# of fat in the rear suspension alone. The camber arm doesn't need to be cast steel. cast AL is fine. The divorced rear spring design means you have to run a high rate rear spring (more steel) and it means the arm has to be sized to take the spring loads in bending. That big cast AL arm is silly. Put a little structure in the shock towers and all of that could be lighter. The rear subframe itself uses big, heavy wall tubing which doesn't seem optimized at all to the job. Smaller tubes and more triangles would go a long way towards dropping weight.

When you start this job at the level of concept, it can make a huge difference. You have to look at the density of literally every part on the car and you have to _really_ care.

 

[Charlemagne]

You're right. Weight savings aren't in their focus. But it's not that bad, check the new M5, it weighs 500 kg more than its predecessor, lol.

 

[Virnman]

I’m here @ my Ford dealer now - first DH I’ve seen in person. Gotta say I like it better in person than in pics. No hate from me, to each their own. The Bronco Raptor is badass too! Glad I live on a strict budget

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