ESS G3X 60-130 seems slow compared to everyone else's with same/similar mods.

[Autopart101]

Matt I think is the one who started it after leaving Lund. He actually left Juggernaut too. I asked Beefcake if they were still his go to and ofc he said yes haha. I had another dude I trust tell me to go Juggernaut too (but ofc he is also a seller for them).

Like I said ill still give them a shot but I am confused on why they can't get a simple gen 2 6r80 car to shift above stock rpm limit. No other tuner has struggled on that. They also ignore when I ask them about the cam timing

I too had to switch to a new tuner over a year back. Wengerd has bent over backwards to help tune my Roush 2650. I had a Solar 95mm TB installed on E85. A set up no one else has. He tuned drivability and answers email with in hours not days. No one can beat Wengerd's customer service.

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[Pistol_91]

No one can beat Wengerd's customer service.

And that's what separates him from the big name tuners that everyone thinks is all amazing.

 

[Autopart101]

And that's what separates him from the big name tuners that everyone thinks is all amazing.

I agree. A big named tuner left my car on a dyno with over 14 revisions. Told me to buy MORE private time. I get Wengerd and 3 revisions later 800WHP. Now car is making 900WHP and on a 103mm Solar TB. He also helped tuned my new set up. Most big tuners wont touch unvetted combos.....

 

[ice445]

Im pretty sure everything that im able to log is being logged. Like i opened all the options on the add channels and nothing else pops up.

Do you want me to send a WOT datalog then because thats when it actually happened was like 7500 rpms. I might've shifted a bit too high using paddles so idk if that has anything to do with it.

Acceleration seems to be like everyone elses but once it goes into 5th it just kinda cuts in half so maybe something is happening around there? Especially since the CEL came on around then. I just checked the codes again earlier today tho and its saying i have the same code but its pending. CEL never came on after i cleared it the first time but idk what pending means.

Hey, another person with an "incomplete" fuel system monitor lol. Unrelated to the issue at hand but it's interesting how this monitor is frozen on some people's cars (including mine). It's supposed to run pretty quick, certainly before the other monitors pass.

 

[engineermike]

@engineermike - Thoughts on identifying fuel pressure issues using maf period and injector pulse width? Would maf period/inj pw be able to show fuel pressure issues? Tried the setup myself and it seems like it might.

On the Gen3 the ipw is automatically extended when it senses lower fuel pressure. This actually prevents it from showing up in fuel trims. However, you can log ipw and compare it to the max to see if it's hitting a limit. The max is around 11.5 ms at 7500 rpm. If the ipw is less than 11.5 at 7500 rpm, it isn't running out of fuel, and even if it does hit 11.5 then it will just begin to drift lambda leaner so even then it's probably not going to lose power.

On the power issue, I think some unnecessary rabbit holes are being explored. For power/performance, there's actually a limited number of things that need to be checked. Lambda between .76 and .85, throttle all the way open, 7500 rpm shift points, spark timing 17-18 on pump gas or 20-22 on e85, intake cam between -5 and +5, and exhaust cam between 5 and 20. If all this is true then there's nothing really holding it back in the tuning side.

 

[Maximos_n]

Pending means that the car is looking to see if the problem persists before throwing another cel.

And no, no point in doing a wot log when I can't see fuel pressure or injector pw. Can you search injector and see if the injector pulse width pops up?

Also like I was mentioning Lund will probably be able to give you a list of channels to add. VCM Scanner is just not automatically able to find them all because of the scrambled osid. PCMTec can find them even on a scrambled id. So I can log a bunch more with pcmtec vs vcm scanner with the Lund tune. The problem is pcmtec costs money for the software and you have to buy another cable.

Just tell Lund what I said to tell them and they should send you a channels file. Try this channels file that Lund has on their website (also attached): https://support.lundracing.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/1500013866622

I got another email this morning after asking about checking more options for fuel pressure or even if i could send a datalog so they could look into the fueling to see any irregularities. All they said was that it has fuel rail pressure pid i can monitor if im using their config.

 

[engineermike]

I think DW400 pump is rated to be boosted but don't quote me

I believe dw recommends a max of 20 volts.

 

[engineermike]

Well the DW400 is what comes with the Whipple Stage 2 so the pump in general would be fine unless Whipple made a bad call there.

And right, I don't know why Lund's tune would not run without boosting the pump, as the Whipple calibration ran the DW400 just fine.

So there's the caveat I put earlier about how I think Lund's tune expected the BAP and ran poorly without it. But regardless they did point out getting a BAP and my fuel pressure and trims are totally fine now after a year so far.

Edit -- Also, they've got my fuel pump duty cycle capped at 43 (86%). I had asked them to raise it and they said with the DW400 they don't like to push it that hard. So to concede, a better fuel pump setup should probably be on my mind!

Whipple cranks the system voltage up to 15.2. Sounds like lund still caps it around 12.5 like stock….14.5 x .86 = 12.5, which would explain why it works with the Whipple tuning but not Lund. So why is Lund limiting voltage to 12.5 so they don’t push the dw400 “that hard” but they’re ok pushing 18 or 20 volts to it through a bap?

 

[Maximos_n]

On the Gen3 the ipw is automatically extended when it senses lower fuel pressure. This actually prevents it from showing up in fuel trims. However, you can log ipw and compare it to the max to see if it's hitting a limit. The max is around 11.5 ms at 7500 rpm. If the ipw is less than 11.5 at 7500 rpm, it isn't running out of fuel, and even if it does hit 11.5 then it will just begin to drift lambda leaner so even then it's probably not going to lose power.

On the power issue, I think some unnecessary rabbit holes are being explored. For power/performance, there's actually a limited number of things that need to be checked. Lambda between .76 and .85, throttle all the way open, 7500 rpm shift points, spark timing 17-18 on pump gas or 20-22 on e85, intake cam between -5 and +5, and exhaust cam between 5 and 20. If all this is true then there's nothing really holding it back in the tuning side.

What do you recommend regarding the fuel pump in this scenario if thats even the likely problem. I dont know what else it could be tho. My shop is telling me to just get another oem one and keep the bap. While other people are telling me to replace it with a completely different aftermarket one and lose the bap.

 

[2019GT]

Whipple cranks the system voltage up to 15.2. Sounds like lund still caps it around 12.5 like stock….14.5 x .86 = 12.5, which would explain why it works with the Whipple tuning but not Lund. So why is Lund limiting voltage to 12.5 so they don’t push the dw400 “that hard” but they’re ok pushing 18 or 20 volts to it through a bap?

Well, I think the point they were making to me recently is that they realize *now* they don't want to push the DW400 pump that hard. But, last year when I got originally tuned by them, even then I was capped at 86% for fpump_dc and don't recall them mentioning concerns about the DW400 being pushed. I did ask them back then to raise the fpump_dc, and was told they pushed it beyond 100%, but when we datalogged it on the dyno it was still capped at 86%. So even that was quite confusing.

I don't know Something isn't quite adding up, but I'm pretty certain they didn't seem concerned about pushing the DW400 hard last year.

 

[tdstuart]

I got another email this morning after asking about checking more options for fuel pressure or even if i could send a datalog so they could look into the fueling to see any irregularities. All they said was that it has fuel rail pressure pid i can monitor if im using their config.

Okay so try their channels file I sent you and see if it has fuel pressure if not just message them back and ask for them to send you the config for your pc

 

[Maximos_n]

Okay so try their channels file I sent you and see if it has fuel pressure if not just message them back and ask for them to send you the config for your pc

I will. Today might get a little busy tho because i gotta take one of my finals.

 

[tdstuart]

On the Gen3 the ipw is automatically extended when it senses lower fuel pressure. This actually prevents it from showing up in fuel trims. However, you can log ipw and compare it to the max to see if it's hitting a limit. The max is around 11.5 ms at 7500 rpm. If the ipw is less than 11.5 at 7500 rpm, it isn't running out of fuel, and even if it does hit 11.5 then it will just begin to drift lambda leaner so even then it's probably not going to lose power.

Good info, thank you for confirming my thoughts!

 

[engineermike]

and how do they suggest you get it to provide sufficient fuel flow/pressure? cranking the voltage? Didn't someone here recently fry theirs?

We fried a stock pump at 22 volts on a test bench but another stock one held up. We had no problem running a dw400 for minutes at a time at 22v.

By the time you spend 12 large on FI and various supporting mods, why start pinching pennies at fuel pumps? A dual or even triple-hat sure didn't seem very expensive to me.

There are several other disadvantages associated with the return style 2 and 3 pump systems.

 

[engineermike]

What do you recommend regarding the fuel pump in this scenario if thats even the likely problem. I dont know what else it could be tho. My shop is telling me to just get another oem one and keep the bap. While other people are telling me to replace it with a completely different aftermarket one and lose the bap.

Do you ever intend to run E85?

The problem with most people is they are hamstrung by what their tuners want. Personally, I've found that a stock pump on a BAP will even support E85 up to a certain power level, and a DW400 at 20 volts will support 850-900 or more on E85 with the right fuel rails and injectors.

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