ESS G3X 60-130 seems slow compared to everyone else's with same/similar mods.

[tdstuart]

OP doesn't have the power to spin the tires at 60 MPH with a 120mm pulley and pump gas, and the 100 milliseconds that it takes the 10R80 to shift into an additional gear wont be costing him the full or even half second he thinks he is missing

I mean depends what tire he is using, based on my experience at lower power levels I would expect your average performance street tire to spin.

I just don't believe changing gears would help much with a 10 speed. Do you have data going from 3.15 to 3.55 and seeing what you picked up?

Here is gear change and mph at change data. Looks like 3.55 could be more optimal than 3.15 given his current rpm limit and tire size. I think if you raised the rpm to 7800 and started in 2nd 3.15 would be way more optimal and at that rpm 3.55 wouldn't show any advantage.


3.15 - Optimal Start 3rd 4600rpm 55mph
2->3 : 7200->5200 : 62mph
3->4 : 7200->5950 : 87mph
4->5 : 7200->6200 : 105mph
5->6 : 7200->6050 : 122mph
6->7 : 7200->5650 : 146mph

3.55 - Optimal Start 3rd 5200rpm 55mph
2->3 : 7200->5200 : 55mph
3->4 : 7200->5950 : 77mph
4->5 : 7200->6200 : 93mph
5->6 : 7200->6050 : 108mph
6->7 : 7200->5650 : 130mph

27.41" Tire

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[2019GT]

You have a Lund tune. You need to go through them (goodluck). Tell them you may have a failing fuel pump and want them to review a data log for you to confirm or see if it's ok. They will probably want money to review a log so again, good luck. There are plenty of threads on here talking about who has has good luck and bad luck with tuning companies. I was lund tuned a few years ago. Never again.

Their tunes come with a 6 month support window and they (especially Alex lol) have been very helpful imo. I've pestered Alex quite a lot LOL and he's put up with me lol. But I can confirm he actually goes into my datalogs as he's sent screenshots of observations he's made.

Also when I first went FI and did the remote dyno tune, I actually had issues with the DW400 pump being unable to meet demand. Dakota was a great help in getting my fuel issues resolved. It came down to me needing a BAP. But on the other hand, I kind of think their canned tune might actually "require" the BAP but that was never mentioned to me.

But on a slight tangent, they recently told me they now prefer the OEM pump over the DW400

 

[shogun32]

But on a slight tangent, they recently told me they now prefer the OEM pump over the DW400

and how do they suggest you get it to provide sufficient fuel flow/pressure? cranking the voltage? Didn't someone here recently fry theirs? And had it reiterated to them that a BAP is a temporary measure that needs to be replaced with pumps up to the task without hacks?

By the time you spend 12 large on FI and various supporting mods, why start pinching pennies at fuel pumps? A dual or even triple-hat sure didn't seem very expensive to me.

 

[tdstuart]

You have a Lund tune. You need to go through them (goodluck). Tell them you may have a failing fuel pump and want them to review a data log for you to confirm or see if it's ok. They will probably want money to review a log so again, good luck. There are plenty of threads on here talking about who has has good luck and bad luck with tuning companies. I was lund tuned a few years ago. Never again.

They will look at logs for free it's just getting them to actually look and care.

I had them tell me 2 tunes were exactly the same and they had no idea why one was faster but I could pull up the log and see the cam timing was different.

Again OP even though I am giving Lund shit, playing the game of switching tuners is brutal and I would recommend sticking it out with Lund. Everyone swears by their tuner. Every seller swears their tuner they are selling you is the best. Its only when you spend the hundreds of dollars and hours of time do you see if its worth it or not.

Case in point I was told by 2 people I trusted that Juggernaut was a solid tuner who would care. I get one response a day if I am lucky, and we are on like revision 6 and they can't get the car to shift higher than 6850 rpm... I spent $1000 on the sct x4 device and tune. My response from the seller? Oh you can probably pay them to set aside specific time to tune your car to get fast responses...

Just keep pushing nicely pushing at them and see if you can get anything. Figure out if you have a fuel pressure issue. Then you can start working on making the car faster. I don't think its the lund tune tbh. Its the same ess tune they send to every gen3 car.

 

[tdstuart]

and how do they suggest you get it to provide sufficient fuel flow/pressure? cranking the voltage? Didn't someone here recently fry theirs? And had it reiterated to them that a BAP is a temporary measure that needs to be replaced with pumps up to the task without hacks?

I think DW400 pump is rated to be boosted but don't quote me

 

[shogun32]

I trusted that Juggernaut was a solid tuner who would care. I get one response a day if I am lucky,

yeah that is very, very disappointing. The point of hanging your own shingle is to beat the pants off the other guy who was handcuffing you. Not to do a worse job...

 

[tdstuart]

yeah that is very, very disappointing. The point of hanging your own shingle is to beat the pants off the other guy who was handcuffing you. Not to do a worse job...

Matt I think is the one who started it after leaving Lund. He actually left Juggernaut too. I asked Beefcake if they were still his go to and ofc he said yes haha. I had another dude I trust tell me to go Juggernaut too (but ofc he is also a seller for them).

Like I said ill still give them a shot but I am confused on why they can't get a simple gen 2 6r80 car to shift above stock rpm limit. No other tuner has struggled on that. They also ignore when I ask them about the cam timing

 

[2019GT]

and how do they suggest you get it to provide sufficient fuel flow/pressure? cranking the voltage? Didn't someone here recently fry theirs? And had it reiterated to them that a BAP is a temporary measure that needs to be replaced with pumps up to the task without hacks?

By the time you spend 12 large on FI and various supporting mods, why start pinching pennies at fuel pumps? A dual or even triple-hat sure didn't seem very expensive to me.

Well the DW400 is what comes with the Whipple Stage 2 so the pump in general would be fine unless Whipple made a bad call there.

And right, I don't know why Lund's tune would not run without boosting the pump, as the Whipple calibration ran the DW400 just fine.

So there's the caveat I put earlier about how I think Lund's tune expected the BAP and ran poorly without it. But regardless they did point out getting a BAP and my fuel pressure and trims are totally fine now after a year so far.

Edit -- Also, they've got my fuel pump duty cycle capped at 43 (86%). I had asked them to raise it and they said with the DW400 they don't like to push it that hard. So to concede, a better fuel pump setup should probably be on my mind!

 

[LOL WUT]

I am not sure why the Lund tune would restrict logging of fuel parameters. I have Lund and can long the recommend fueling channels with my NGauge.

If you can’t log the parameters how does Lund review your datalogs to confirm all is well?

 

[Maximos_n]

If anything I would think its your fuel pump booster but the pump could be struggling.

I don't see anything in the logs. Your car is running rich and the car wants to pull fuel. It's hard to say because the gen3 cars have a fuel pressure sensor, its totally possible it has good logic that can see the low fuel pressure and compensate accordingly without having to adjust fuel trims.

If the car didn't have the sensor and was assuming fuel pressure was fine then we would see the car start to go lean.

To be sure we would have to see the fuel pressure. We may be able to tell off of the injector pulse width (how long the injectors are open).

Are you able to log injector pulse width?

@engineermike - Thoughts on identifying fuel pressure issues using maf period and injector pulse width? Would maf period/inj pw be able to show fuel pressure issues? Tried the setup myself and it seems like it might.

Im pretty sure everything that im able to log is being logged. Like i opened all the options on the add channels and nothing else pops up.

Do you want me to send a WOT datalog then because thats when it actually happened was like 7500 rpms. I might've shifted a bit too high using paddles so idk if that has anything to do with it.

Acceleration seems to be like everyone elses but once it goes into 5th it just kinda cuts in half so maybe something is happening around there? Especially since the CEL came on around then. I just checked the codes again earlier today tho and its saying i have the same code but its pending. CEL never came on after i cleared it the first time but idk what pending means.

 

[tdstuart]

Im pretty sure everything that im able to log is being logged. Like i opened all the options on the add channels and nothing else pops up.

Do you want me to send a WOT datalog then because thats when it actually happened was like 7500 rpms. I might've shifted a bit too high using paddles so idk if that has anything to do with it.

Acceleration seems to be like everyone elses but once it goes into 5th it just kinda cuts in half so maybe something is happening around there? Especially since the CEL came on around then. I just checked the codes again earlier today tho and its saying i have the same code but its pending. CEL never came on after i cleared it the first time but idk what pending means.

Pending means that the car is looking to see if the problem persists before throwing another cel.

And no, no point in doing a wot log when I can't see fuel pressure or injector pw. Can you search injector and see if the injector pulse width pops up?

Also like I was mentioning Lund will probably be able to give you a list of channels to add. VCM Scanner is just not automatically able to find them all because of the scrambled osid. PCMTec can find them even on a scrambled id. So I can log a bunch more with pcmtec vs vcm scanner with the Lund tune. The problem is pcmtec costs money for the software and you have to buy another cable.

Just tell Lund what I said to tell them and they should send you a channels file. Try this channels file that Lund has on their website (also attached): https://support.lundracing.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/1500013866622

 

[tdstuart]

I am not sure why the Lund tune would restrict logging of fuel parameters. I have Lund and can long the recommend fueling channels with my NGauge.

If you can’t log the parameters how does Lund review your datalogs to confirm all is well?

He just needs the channel file to tell vcm scanner what to log. Lund scrambles the osid to prevent people from easily reading their tunes. This confuses vcm scanner and it can't automatically find all the parameters it can log.

When he was using his phone I am sure they sent him a channels file to his phone, now he just needs one for his computer.

Lund sends you a channels file for the ngauge too, just don't remember what the file name is called.

It's not that they are purposely trying to restrict logging, it's just a side effect of them trying to lock down their tune so no one can read it. They need to send you a file that tells your logger what to log.

PCMTec does fine and can log everything with my Lund tune without needing a special file.

 

[tdstuart]

So there's the caveat I put earlier about how I think Lund's tune expected the BAP and ran poorly without it. But regardless they did point out getting a BAP and my fuel pressure and trims are totally fine now after a year so far.

I'm still new to tuning but it's more likely that you are just making enough power that the dw400 without a BAP just isn't able to keep up. Not that the Lund tune specifically requires a BAP.

 

[2019GT]

I'm still new to tuning but it's more likely that you are just making enough power that the dw400 without a BAP just isn't able to keep up. Not that the Lund tune specifically requires a BAP.

It's hard to say!

1. Tune #1: Local shop's dyno tune. Handled DW400 without a BAP no problem. Made 686whp on a DynoJet STD. No octane booster

2. Tune #2: Lund's tune. Fuel pressure dropped dangerously low without the BAP. With a BAP and octane booster, made about 680whp on a Mustang Dyno STD.

I'd like to imagine on a DynoJet I'd read somewhere in the 700s but I don't want to play mental gymnastics either.

All I know is, my local shop couldn't get my shift points to even 7000 and that's why I ended up going back to Lund. Didn't feel like trying to find a local tuner after that failure lol, and I had used Lund for N/A E85 so I knew they could nail those shift points.

 

[Maximos_n]

Pending means that the car is looking to see if the problem persists before throwing another cel.

And no, no point in doing a wot log when I can't see fuel pressure or injector pw. Can you search injector and see if the injector pulse width pops up?

Also like I was mentioning Lund will probably be able to give you a list of channels to add. VCM Scanner is just not automatically able to find them all because of the scrambled osid. PCMTec can find them even on a scrambled id. So I can log a bunch more with pcmtec vs vcm scanner with the Lund tune. The problem is pcmtec costs money for the software and you have to buy another cable.

Just tell Lund what I said to tell them and they should send you a channels file. Try this channels file that Lund has on their website (also attached): https://support.lundracing.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/1500013866622

Alright ill check it out when i get home im currently working. Got about one more hour.

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