BBQ Tick Test Request

[GT Pony]

So what are you getting at ? As per the manual this is not something to check . Why would a tech check this ? I have the answer do you ?

What I'm getting at is engine clearances that are out of specification is not "normal" ... it's a defect. What if half the parts in an engine were all out of clearance spec ... is that considered normal?

What's your answer ... because the "manual" doesn't say to check it?

Why do you think there's a rod side clearance spec in the Service Manual?

Obviously some dealership mechanics do check the rod side clearance as reported by members here that say some of the rods were out of spec. Anyone that works on the bottom end of any engine surely would check the rod side clearance and compare the findings to the service manual specifications. Especially if an engine comes in making abnormal ticking or other noises. Everything needs to be checked.

And guess what the corrective action recommendation is from Ford ... replace the short block assembly. Dealerships also know that replacing the short block is faster, cheaper and easier instead of rebuilding the original short block.

You didn't answer my question - what would you do if you found some rods to have excessive side clearance?

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[fmc_smt]

Ok jack ass , I would follow what is outlined in the warranty and procedure manual .If I had a tick /knock I would follow what the service manuals stated . If some unknown reason I doubted it I would contact TAC .what I fell you want is someone or something to tell you that your right about the side clearance . I am not , or will you find it some where else . It is only a theory . And we all like chasing a dream !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GT Pony]

Ok jack ass , I would follow what is outlined in the warranty and procedure manual .If I had a tick /knock I would follow what the service manuals stated . If some unknown reason I doubted it I would contact TAC .what I fell you want is someone or something to tell you that your right about the side clearance . I am not , or will you find it some where else . It is only a theory . And we all like chasing a dream !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you wouldn't even check the rod side clearance on any engine because the service manual doesn't tell you to ... that's some brilliant mechanic work right there - lol.

You'd fail because the service manual fails to direct someone to do it ... even though they should already know about the importance of rod side clearances, and can see a spec called out in the manual.

Obviously the system is broken ... not really a surprise actually.

Yes, it's only a theory ... so what. Do you or anyone else have a better theory, and are they trying to show any proof?

Why is it so many members here have anger issues ... Jesus, really.

 

[fmc_smt]

If repairing an engine , I would follow the WSN . if that makes me a bad mechanic so be it . I do not in any way consider myself as a mechanic . If you think that some jack ass can fix tis shit , your hired . I haven't had the luxury of having to deal with so called tic . Granted we don't sell a lot mustangs , but we do sell a shit pot of f150 . I invite you to walk my shoes , so you can see what it is really about

 

[GT Pony]

If repairing an engine , I would follow the WSN . if that makes me a bad mechanic so be it . I do not in any way consider myself as a mechanic . If you think that some jack ass can fix tis shit , your hired . I haven't had the luxury of having to deal with so called tic . Granted we don't sell a lot mustangs , but we do sell a shit pot of f150 . I invite you to walk my shoes , so you can see what it is really about

You said earlier you're a Ford Senior Master Tech (post #57) ... and you don't "consider yourself as a mechanic" ... huh? What am I missing - head scratch. And that statue guy looks like he's thinking about checking some rod side clearances - lol.

Oh by the way I have one of these.

I'd love to be in a Ford shop analyzing these ticking engines. I'd do it for free just to check clearances and bearing wear, etc first hand. I'd also be checking the crankshaft end play clearance and all journal bearing clearance specs ... all which are also called out in the Service Manual.

You should be interested in this stuff I'd think. Don't be so negative, it's really not killing anyone to search for a reason on what makes 'em "tick".

 

[GT 550]

Maybe we could cut to the chase here...@ fmc_smt can you shed any light on what's causing the tick and the rattle please?

 

[zero_chance]

@88lx50 - thanks

Everyone keeps saying they wish they knew what causes the BBQ tick since Ford won't ever say, so I'm just trying to test out a theory. Since guys who have the BBQ tick never see any metal debris in the oil or filter, it's got to be something that doesn't cause any wear which could simply be rod side clearance or crankshaft end play being a bit too large.

If the ticking changes or goes away with the front end of the car elevated up quite a bit then it's probably the rods and/or the crankshaft not banging together in that orientation anymore. The ticking is sensitive to loads on the crankshaft, as has been reported by some people.

I think you’re probably onto it with your theory. There’s a video where someone has the pan off and demonstrates some movement of the rod on the crank journal. They didn’t measure it on the video but the eyeball test seems to indicate it was excessive.

 

[Stokely77x]

Anyone else notice that their car sounds like a diesel engine at idle when heard while sitting INSIDE the car. I have Ceratec added to the oil and I do not hear the ticking/tapping anymore (inside or outside the car), however, the dieselesque sound I hear at idle from the inside is there and just plain sounds bad. Sounds like a Ford diesel truck lol

I 100% agree! I can handle a tick but the dang knock type sound at idle kills me... but I've had it a 3 different dealers and I get the textbook reply "it's a performance engine and is performing as designed at this time". I'm just gonna enjoy it and the 100k mile warranty. When it cuts loose and blows then they will know what to fix. But anyway... that's my thoughts. Just a shame for what you pay that it rattles and ticks like a diesel.

 

[hws52]

I have heard the ticking with my front tires on ramps just the same as on flat ground. However, my car is now in the shop for the issue and the tech determined that it was excessive rod side clearance. After measuring he found that the rod side clearance was over double spec, on two different bearings. He showed it to me and it was very evident. Had a lot of side to side play and make the exact typewriter tick noise when moved side to side by hand. Ford approved a short block, however it’s in backorder for a month and a half.

Problem is as far as I know Ford or the supplier have not made any changes to the parts. The few documented short or long block replacements seem to have about the same percentage recurring noise.

 

[Lo Pony]

I went by the dealer to get a few photos and video. On the plus side my tech really knows his stuff and is very careful and organized.

Wow, yes, you can see them move actually.

 

[gimmie11s]

Can you post the techs findings ? The tech should have the measurements of what was found during his tear down .I have listed the spec from Ford below . Compare the findings for yourself and see if they are actually more then double the spec .
Specifications
Materials

Name Specification
Engine Oil - SAE 5W-20 - Synthetic Blend Motor Oil
XO-5W20-Q1SP WSS-M2C945-B1



Engine



Item Specification
Displacement 5.038 L (307 CID)
No. of cylinders 8
Bore 93.0 mm (3.661 in)
Stroke 92.7 mm (3.649 in)
Firing order 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2
Spark plug 12405
Spark plug gap 1.25-1.35 mm (0.049-0.053 in)
Compression ratio 12:1
Engine weight (W/O accessory drive components) 453.0 lb (205.5 kg)




Lubricants



Item Specification
Material: Engine Oil - SAE 5W-20 - Synthetic Blend Motor Oil / XO-5W20-Q1SP (WSS-M2C945-B1) WSS-M2C945-1




Engine Oil Capacity



Item Specification
Service fill including oil filter 10.0 qt (9.5 L)




Oil Pressure



Item Specification
Oil pressure @ idle with engine at normal operating temperature 10–15 psi (69–103 kPa)
Oil pressure @ 2,000 rpm with engine at normal operating temperature 30–40 psi (207–276 kPa)




Cylinder Head and Valve Train



Item Specification
Combustion chamber volume 3.33–3.51 in³ (54.5–57.5 cm³)
Valve stem diameter - intake 0.2352–0.2360 in (5.975–5.995 mm)
Valve stem diameter - exhaust 0.2343–0.2350 in (5.95–5.97 mm)
Valve stem-to-guide clearance - intake 0.0007–0.0027 in (.019–.069 mm)
Valve stem-to-guide clearance - exhaust 0.0017–0.0037 in (.044–.094 mm)
Valve head diameter - intake 1.48 in (37.7 mm)
Valve head diameter - exhaust 1.26 in (32 mm)
Valve face runout 0.0020 in (.05 mm)
Valve face angle 3 angle intake / 2 angle exhaust
Valve seat width - intake 0.047–0.055 in (1.2–1.4 mm)
Valve seat width - exhaust 0.055–0.063 in (1.4–1.6 mm)
Valve seat roundness 0.0098 in (.25 mm)
Valve seat to guide runout 0.0016 in (0.04 mm) at bottom of guide
Valve seat angle (degrees) - Intake 120/90/54 degrees
Valve seat angle (degrees) - Exhaust 120/100/60 degrees
Valve spring free length - intake 2.201 in (55.9 mm)
Valve spring free length - exhaust 2.201 in (55.9 mm)
Valve spring perpendicularity - intake 0.067 in (1.7 mm)
Valve spring perpendicularity - exhaust 0.067 in (1.7 mm)
Valve spring compression force - intake 813 N
Valve spring compression force - exhaust 813 N
Valve spring installed height - intake 1.7913 in (45.5 mm)
Valve spring installed height - exhaust 1.7913 in (45.5 mm)
Valve spring installed force - intake 293 N
Valve spring installed force - exhaust 293 N
Roller follower ratio 2.039:1 intake / 2.041:1 exhaust, max
Cylinder head gasket surface flatness 0.025 mm (0.001 in) in any 25 mm (1 in) x 25 mm (1 in) area; 0.050 mm (0.002 in) in any 150 mm (6 in) x 150 mm (6 in) area; 0.1 mm (0.004 in) overall




Hydraulic Lash Adjuster



Item Specification
Diameter — intake 0.472 in (12 mm)
Diameter — exhaust 0.472 in (12 mm)
Clearance-to-bore 0.0004–0.0020 in (.01–.051 mm)
Hydraulic leakdown rate — intake 0.45-3 secondsa
Hydraulic leakdown rate — exhaust 0.45-3 secondsa
Collapsed lash adjuster gap 0.0138–0.0335 in (.35–.85 mm)




Camshaft



Item Specification
Lobe lift - intake 0.2728 in (6.9279 mm)
Lobe lift - exhaust 0.2727 in (6.9254 mm)
Journal diameter 1.1268 in (28.62 mm)
Camshaft bearing bore inside diameter - Journal 1 (exhaust front) 1.3783–1.3792 in (35.008–35.032 mm)
Camshaft bearing bore inside diameter - Journal 2-10 1.1292–1.1282 in (28.682–28.657 mm)
Journal-to-bearing clearance - Journal 1 (exhaust front) 0.0011–0.0028 in (.028–.072 mm)
Journal-to-bearing clearance - Journal 2-10 0.0009–0.0030 in (.024–.075 mm)
Runout 0.0016 in (.04 mm)
End play - Intake 0.0028–0.0067 in (.07–.17 mm)
End play - Exhaust 0.0030–0.0065 in (.075–.165 mm)




Cylinder Block



Item Specification
Cylinder bore diameter 3.6614–3.6622 in (93–93.02 mm)
Cylinder bore maximum taper 0.0005 in (.013 mm)
Cylinder bore maximum out-of-round 0.0004 in (.01 mm)
Main bearing bore inside diameter 2.850–2.851 in (72.4–72.424 mm)
Head gasket surface flatness 0.0254 mm (0.001 in) across any 38.1 mm (1.5 in) square




Crankshaft



Item Specification
Main bearing journal diameter 2.657–2.658 in (67.481–67.505 mm)
Main bearing journal maximum taper 0.0002 in (.004 mm)
Main bearing journal maximum out-of-round 0.0002 in (.006 mm)
Main bearing journal-to-main bearing clearance 0.0010–0.0018 in (.025–.045 mm)
Connecting rod journal diameter 2.086–2.087 in (52.983–53.003 mm)
Connecting rod journal maximum taper 0.0002 in (.004 mm)
Connecting rod journal maximum out-of-round 0.0002 in (.006 mm)
Crankshaft maximum end play 0.0110 in (.28 mm)




Piston and Connecting Rod



Item Specification
Piston diameter - single grade 3.6284–3.6289 in (92.161–92.175 mm)
Piston-to-cylinder bore clearance (at grade size)b 0.0010–0.0023 in (.025–.059 mm)
Piston ring end gap - top 0.0079–0.0118 in (.2–.3 mm)
Piston ring end gap - intermediate 0.0197–0.0315 in (.5–.8 mm)
Piston ring end gap — oil control 0.0059–0.0177 in (.15–.45 mm)
Piston ring groove width - top 0.0480–0.0492 in (1.22–1.25 mm)
Piston ring groove width - intermediate 0.0480–0.0488 in (1.22–1.24 mm)
Piston ring groove width— oil control 0.0799–0.0807 in (2.03–2.05 mm)
Piston ring width - top 0.0461–0.0469 in (1.17–1.19 mm)
Piston ring width - intermediate 0.0461–0.0469 in (1.17–1.19 mm)
Piston ring-to-groove clearance - top 0.0012–0.0031 in (.03–.08 mm)
Piston ring-to-groove clearance - intermediate 0.0012–0.0028 in (.03–.07 mm)
Piston pin bore diameter 0.8663–0.8665 in (22.004–22.01 mm)
Piston pin diameter 0.8660–0.8661 in (21.997–22 mm)
Piston pin length 2.390–2.402 in (60.7–61 mm)
Piston pin-to-piston fit (clearance) 0.0002–0.0005 in (.004–.013 mm)
Connecting rod-to-pin clearance 0.0001–0.0007 in (.003–.018 mm)
Connecting rod pin bore diameter 0.8663–0.8667 in (22.003–22.015 mm)
Connecting rod length (center-to-center) 5.93 in (150.7 mm)
Connecting rod maximum allowed bend 0.0015 in (.038 mm)
Connecting rod maximum allowed twist 0.0020 in (.05 mm)
Connecting rod bearing-to-crankshaft clearance 0.0011–0.0027 in (.028–.069 mm)
Connecting rod side clearance (as assembled to crank) — standard play 0.0128 in (.325 mm)
Connecting rod side clearance (as assembled to crank) — max. play 0.0197 in (.5 mm)

• Time required for the plunger to leak down 1.6 mm of travel with 222 N force and leakdown fluid in the lash adjuster
• Before Grafal coating.

Excellent info here thank you.. quoted for future reference. I was looking for factory piston ring thickness and here it is.

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