GT350 Owner: Have you driven the Mach 1? Please provide your comparison to GT350

[Cobra Jet]

Thank you for the kind words.

To repeat - the transmission aspect isn’t relevant to the steering feel, the handling, tightness, nimble feel, etc etc. We know the manual transmission is identical in the two cars except it’s actually better in the Mach 1 given the rev-matching feature which can be deactivated if desired.

So out of curiosity, with regards to the steering feeling aspect of the test drive do you (or anyone reading this) know what the M1 EPAS hardware and software logic is vs. the GT350?

I think the steering feeling (actual steering without any "steering mode" activation in either car) is derived from the EPAS hardware and the As Built software logic for the EPAS unit.

I was involved with some older EPAS threads on here and from research there are different EPAS units per S550 platform as well as having different embedded software logic that attributes to the returned response of those units. I had asked in numerous threads if EPAS coding could be changed via Forscan. In one of the threads there was a posted link from another forum where folks discussed this in greater detail. I have never seen anyone stating success in accomplishing such a change with the EPAS logic.

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[Mikepol2]

Agree completely. Test drives sell cars. Especially when a trained salesperson knows how to accelerate the driver’s excitement. Unfortunately, the pay model at Ford dealerships very rarely allows for highly paid, professional salespeople.

Funny you bring this up... my M1 salesman looks to be in his 30's and has two little girls. Has mentioned more than once things to this effect. Thinking about moving to Florida some day soon to find a better job... makes more money driving for Uber than he makes at the Ford dealer... etc.

 

[348SStb]

So out of curiosity, with regards to the steering feeling aspect of the test drive do you (or anyone reading this) know what the M1 EPAS hardware and software logic is vs. the GT350?

I think the steering feeling (actual steering without any "steering mode" activation in either car) is derived from the EPAS hardware and the As Built software logic for the EPAS unit.

I was involved with some older EPAS threads on here and from research there are different EPAS units per S550 platform as well as having different embedded software logic that attributes to the returned response of those units. I had asked in numerous threads if EPAS coding could be changed via Forscan. In one of the threads there was a posted link from another forum where folks discussed this in greater detail. I have never seen anyone stating success in accomplishing such a change with the EPAS logic.

I do not. This area becomes a bit technical as there are steering knuckles involved, front suspension geometry, etc. in addition to software.

All I can tell you is that in my opinion there is no sports car in the world that has better power-assisted steering feel than the Shelby GT350 (and I imagine GT500); and the Mach 1 feel in the base car is not anything close to that feel.

 

[JAJ]

I do not. This area becomes a bit technical as there are steering knuckles involved, front suspension geometry, etc. in addition to software.

All I can tell you is that in my opinion there is no sports car in the world that has better power-assisted steering feel than the Shelby GT350 (and I imagine GT500); and the Mach 1 feel in the base car is not anything close to that feel.

Thank you for posting the review - it's interesting and your conclusions aren't really a surprise to me, at least.

Ford Performance is a separate division within Ford. It has its own engineering group and it builds specialty cars for a fairly narrow demographic. They start with the same chassis as other Mustangs, but a surprising number of their components are not interchangeable with Ford's mainstream production Mustangs.

The mainstream part of Ford produces excellent versions of the Mustang that are designed and built differently than the FP cars. Ford's engineers are assigned different goals and the cars come to market with personalities that match those goals.

A lot of Mustang owners have a powerful wish to believe that a PP2, or a Bullitt or a Mach 1 is the next stage or evolution of the GT350. They're not. They're on a parallel evolutionary path that borrows from FP, but that's not intended to compete with it.

 

[VIPR01]

Sorry, but the Mach1 shouldn’t even be in the same discussion as the 350. It’s like comparing ground chuck to a Wagyu Snake River Filet.

 

[Lorne34]

I don't think the Mach I was intended to compete directly with the GT350. The characteristics of the engines are different, just like the Gt500 is a different animal. The Mach I is what the GTPP2 should have been. Although the aesthetics of the Mach I are terrible. The retro ques of the classic mach I does not carry over to the S550 chassis. The hood stripe is all wrong and should not come to a point. The fake plastic fog lamps (sorry) are not visually good as well...

 

[foolwithtools]

I don't think the Mach I was intended to compete directly with the GT350. The characteristics of the engines are different, just like the Gt500 is a different animal. The Mach I is what the GTPP2 should have been. Although the aesthetics of the Mach I are terrible. The retro ques of the classic mach I does not carry over to the S550 chassis. The hood stripe is all wrong and should not come to a point. The fake plastic fog lamps (sorry) are not visually good as well...

I mean M1 can't really compete with GT350s since GT350s aren't in production anymore... I think one can argue that it's a replacement for the GT350 though!

 

[VIPR01]

I mean M1 can't really compete with GT350s since GT350s aren't in production anymore... I think one can argue that it's a replacement for the GT350 though!

Minus the fact it still only makes slightly over 400HP, which reflects similar numbers as a 2018+. 5.0s are louder than they are fast…..seat of the pants dyno bro

 

[J. Kidd]

Minus the fact it still only makes slightly over 400HP, which reflects similar numbers as a 2018+. 5.0s are louder than they are fast…..seat of the pants dyno bro

I thought the 2018+ (GTs) were making closer to 500 hp....unless you were talking about at the wheels.

 

[348SStb]

The Mach 1 makes 480 hp and the GT makes 460 hp. That’s plain and simple.

This thread is not a dyno thread about power to the wheels vs crank philosophy and manufacturers’ horsepower claims. I mean that’s really stretching things.

 

[JAJ]

So, following up on my post yesterday about different design goals between FP and mainstream Ford, I went looking for a picture of the Mach 1 this morning, and stumbled across this article in Car and Driver: https://www.caranddriver.com/review...for the Mach 1,Mustang Bullitt, and the GT350.

The authors go into great depth on just how great the car is, and presumably it is a good product. BUT, they also make my point for me. There's a part of the article where the author talks about corner exit understeer. The reason? Here's a quote from the article:

"As you begin to send power to the Handling Package's sticky Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 rubber transplanted from the Shelby GT350R, the attitude initially tends toward slight understeer rather than oversteer, something that the GT350R didn't do.

According to the Mach 1's chief engineer Carl Widmann, that trait is due to a combination of the integral link rear suspension design and bushing compliance within the suspension, which together cause the Mach 1 to dynamically toe-in the rear wheels when acceleration compresses the rear suspension. This gives the Mach 1 a stable feel, but also means you'll want to adjust your line slightly to plan for that initial understeer."

So, FP wanted the GT350/R to run neutral to slight oversteer on corner exit, while mainstream Ford wants to make it understeer. The engineering teams have different performance goals and both have done a good job implementing them.

 

[SmokinAces]

The engineering teams have different performance goals

would this also explain why the GT350/R recommended track setup incorporates negative toe for the front, while the Mach 1 utilizes positive toe in front?

 

[348SStb]

would this also explain why the GT350/R recommended track setup incorporates negative toe for the front, while the Mach 1 utilizes positive toe in front?

I do not disbelieve you in any way- but just out of curiosity, how did you acquire the alignment specifications of the Mach 1?

 

[Mikepol2]

Sorry, but the Mach1 shouldn’t even be in the same discussion as the 350. It’s like comparing ground chuck to a Wagyu Snake River Filet.

What SHOULD be compared to the GT350 in your opinion?

And (should we assume you are a GT350 owner), have you driven a Mach 1 like the thread title asks?

 

[SmokinAces]

I do not disbelieve your in any way- but just out of curiosity, how did you acquire the alignment specifications of the Mach 1?
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sorry, I know this is a crude way to show you. Not very good with links.

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