Carbon trap removal, +18 hp ??

[RocketGuy3]

It’s kinda funny really. Carbon trap pullers ain’t never gonna get no respect.

Guys pull the CF and say they can feel the difference and people want to tell them what their own butts can and can’t feel. They say “take it to the dyno and prove it”. Nobody notices Tony already did that or they attempt to discredit Tony’s work by saying “too many variables, take it to the strip”. Umm, how many variables exist in a before and after drag strip run comparo?

I may or may not pull mine at some point but if I do I’ll bet the convo will not have changed. It’s getting to be about as bad as the Mach 1 vs. GT350 thing.

Even if it is proven on the dyno, you're still not feeling that difference.

There’s a couple YouTube videos of guys who have done dyno pulls and I mean the numbers do show the improvement of 18+ but I just don’t know, I have to do it myself,
like I said there is a noticeable improvement, if I had to put a number on it just by feel maybe 8-10 HP,

I hate to be a broken record here, but man I gotta tell you again, you just cannot feel an 8-10 hp increase in a 470 hp car. Our minds and bodies do not work that way. It's in your head.

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[MAGS1]

Our minds and bodies do not work that way. It's in your head.

Except if it’s in his head, his mind does work that way…

 

[young at heart]

Even if it is proven on the dyno, you're still not feeling that difference.



I hate to be a broken record here, but man I gotta tell you again, you just cannot feel an 8-10 hp increase in a 470 hp car. Our minds and bodies do not work that way. It's in your head.

Help us understand how any person can absolutely understand what another can or cannot feel. I’d love to see that science.

And while we’re at it, what tactile experience is not “in your head”? I’d postulate that human nature dictates that our perceptions are in fact our realities. Does that mean they aren’t real?

Dyno results are the closest thing to empirical facts that are pertinent to this discussion, and likely carry the fewest variables. The rest is a combination of unprovable conjecture and opinion.

 

[chuckhammer]

Regardless of whether it can easily be felt, the power difference is real, it is free, it is harmless to the car, and therefore there's little reason to skip it.

Since I have an E85 tune I went ahead and pulled the insert sleeve as well. The calibration includes the larger diameter at the MAF. Which now matches the pre-carbon trap era ('18-'21) diameter.

 

[John S]

If adding an E-85 tune, does it matter if the insert sleeve is retained or deleted? Intuition says delete it but is it better for sensor air flow control or some other engineering benefit? I haven't seen any post-tune dyno data to show if deleting the sleeve has any affect. Thanks.

 

[Jasonb543]

too many variables, take it to the strip”. Umm, how many variables exist in a before and after drag strip run comparo?

This is the way to answer it.. in nearly stock form these cars are remarkably consistent.

you would draw conclusions from MPH, not ET.
And if you pick up 1MPH or close to it before/after… that’s real world results.

I did headers stock…. Picked up 4MPH …. That’s a huge gain, no idea on how that would show on a dyno, but you can use calculators and reverse engineer your numbers.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

I don't disagree with you, but perhaps what the OP feels is simply better throttle response with out the air flow restriction.

 

[MAGS1]

I don't disagree with you, but perhaps what the OP feels is simply better throttle response with out the air flow restriction.

That’s what I felt when I removed mine. Granted, GT vs Mach so maybe not as much of a restriction just given the size. But it was a noticeable improvement.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

That’s what I felt when I removed mine. Granted, GT vs Mach so maybe not as much of a restriction just given the size. But it was a noticeable improvement.

Makes sense. You wouldn't "feel" a HP increase that small, but less air flow restriction usually does make the throttle feel a little snapier.

 

[rubyredponycar]

Even if it is proven on the dyno, you're still not feeling that difference.



I hate to be a broken record here, but man I gotta tell you again, you just cannot feel an 8-10 hp increase in a 470 hp car. Our minds and bodies do not work that way. It's in your head.

I don’t know man my butt dyno can tell if I’m running 87 or 93 octane. I think you can tell more than 10 hp gained. Also that’s wheel HP so the crank is going to feel much more lively. You will feel that especially in a manual. It’s about a 4% increase. Lots of guys get a 93 tune and can few the difference and might only be 25 HP over stock. E85 is more noticeable. If taking out an airflow restriction makes almost 20hp you will feel that.

 

[WildHorse]

I did headers stock…. Picked up 4MPH …. That’s a huge gain

MOST of that was from removing the factory CATS.

 

[shogun32]

my butt dyno can tell if I’m running 87 or 93 octane

that's torque, not hp

 

[rubyredponycar]

I’m saying it’s the same ford factory 10hp difference between 21-22. Dynos all read, and correct differently .
I’m pretty confident Ford didn’t tune the car for 18 more hp and then choke it with the trap.

They added a filter for emissions and it restricted the airflow. Resulting in less power. If anything they would have tuned the car to perform better and minimize the impact of the air restriction meaning removing it will increase HP to more than the tune for the 21 prior cars.

The point is ford didn’t change the tune. Dynos can be about 10 hp off depending on weather and other factors. So the same car can be 465 one day and 475 the next without changing any tunes.

 

[ChitownStang]

It had to be re-tuned by Ford because the intake tube ID at the MAF is smaller with the insert sleeve in place.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/22-23-vs-18-21-cai-measurements.191281/

So, if Tony’s numbers are accurate

They added a filter for emissions and it restricted the airflow. Resulting in less power. If anything they would have tuned the car to perform better and minimize the impact of the air restriction meaning removing it will increase HP to more than the tune for the 21 prior cars.

The point is ford didn’t change the tune. Dynos can be about 10 hp off depending on weather and other factors. So the same car can be 465 one day and 475 the next without changing any tunes.

If Ford retuned the car for the trap then taking it out would cause issues with how the car runs. This is why I think there is only the difference of 470 back to 480hp

 

[Dan2023]

I don't disagree with you, but perhaps what the OP feels is simply better throttle response with out the air flow restriction.

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m feeling, more response at the throttle,

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