Carbon trap removal, +18 hp ??

[NGOT8R]

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m feeling, more response at the throttle,

Add in a Throttle Controller and it will seem even snappier.

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[SheepDog]

Even if it is proven on the dyno, you're still not feeling that difference.



I hate to be a broken record here, but man I gotta tell you again, you just cannot feel an 8-10 hp increase in a 470 hp car. Our minds and bodies do not work that way. It's in your head.

But mostly because it weighs 4000 lbs. 10 HP difference can be felt in a Miata

 

[chuckhammer]

So, if Tony’s numbers are accurate
If Ford retuned the car for the trap then taking it out would cause issues with how the car runs. This is why I think there is only the difference of 470 back to 480hp

For '22-'23 GTs, the diameter at the MAF is smaller by 2.5 mm (95 vs. 97.5 mm) with the insert sleeve installed. This diameter is part of the fuel mapping. The MAF measures flow velocity directly. ECU then calculates the volumetric flow based on the known flow area (pi*D^2/4) times the measured flow velocity. Using the measured inlet air temperature and pressure, the ECU has a lookup table for density. Volumetric flow * density gives the air mass flow. Now it knows how much fuel to inject to hit the targeted lambda.

If you yank the insert sleeve and don't tell the ECU the new diameter, it will see the lower flow velocity measured by the MAF (due to the larger area) and assume the engine's getting less air. It will inject less fuel and run lean until the wideband O2s detect the lean condition in the exhaust gas. Short term fuel trims will then add fuel to correct. If that correction is less than a certain amount from the baseline map (+/- 10% ?) it won't throw a CEL. Else, it will.

This is my understanding of how it works and why Ford would need to modify the factory tune to account for the smaller diameter at the MAF.

 

[SheepDog]

For '22-'23 GTs, the diameter at the MAF is smaller by 2.5 mm (95 vs. 97.5 mm) with the insert sleeve installed. This diameter is part of the fuel mapping. The MAF measures flow velocity directly. ECU then calculates the volumetric flow based on the known flow area (pi*D^2/4) times the measured flow velocity. Using the measured inlet air temperature and pressure, the ECU has a lookup table for density. Volumetric flow * density gives the air mass flow. Now it knows how much fuel to inject to hit the targeted lambda.

If you yank the insert sleeve and don't tell the ECU the new diameter, it will see the lower flow velocity measured by the MAF (due to the larger area) and assume the engine's getting less air. It will inject less fuel and run lean until the wideband O2s detect the lean condition in the exhaust gas. Short term fuel trims will then add fuel to correct. If that correction is less than a certain amount from the baseline map (+/- 10% ?) it won't throw a CEL. Else, it will.

This is my understanding of how it works and why Ford would need to modify the factory tune to account for the smaller diameter at the MAF.

The difference is actually 20% fuel trims with the sleeve removed. I know this because it is my chubby thumb in OP's original post photo, and me and Wengerd tested it out.

 

[young at heart]

They added a filter for emissions and it restricted the airflow. Resulting in less power. If anything they would have tuned the car to perform better and minimize the impact of the air restriction meaning removing it will increase HP to more than the tune for the 21 prior cars.

The point is ford didn’t change the tune. Dynos can be about 10 hp off depending on weather and other factors. So the same car can be 465 one day and 475 the next without changing any tunes.

And you know this how?

Insider contact at Ford?

Cause I’ve seen a couple of hints to the contrary quoted on these pages. No, I don’t have the quotes handy but they aren’t hard to find.

 

[WildHorse]

The difference is actually 20% fuel trims

no way it's 20%

 

[John S]

...so, back to my question, if doing an E-85 tune with an 87mm throttle body diameter, does deleting the insert to go from 95mm to 97.5 mm diameter at the MAF have any measurable benefit?

 

[SheepDog]

no way it's 20%

Mkay. All I can tell you is that when I removed both the carbon trap and sleeve, and then sent a log to Wengerd (unfortunately using the TDN App at the time) STFT was +20%. Put the sleeve back in, and fuel trims returned to normal.

The diameter change inside the intake tract is fairly significant with the sleeve removed. I did not measure it because I knew I was going to be omitting all that crap anyway.

 

[Joshinator99]

no way it's 20%

Correct. Free area of a 95mm pipe is 7084.6 square mm and on a 97.5mm pipe it is 7462.4 square mm. So it’s a 5.3% difference which the ECM will be fine with.

FWIW, I yanked the whole stock ‘22 GT air intake assembly and used an ‘18-up Corsa carbon fiber CAI. Works perfectly with no CEL and no tune changes.

 

[SheepDog]

...so, back to my question, if doing an E-85 tune with an 87mm throttle body diameter, does deleting the insert to go from 95mm to 97.5 mm diameter at the MAF have any measurable benefit?

It's more than 2.5mm difference, and no, you won't gain any noticeable power.

This is on a MACH1/GT350 intake. Unsure what the difference is on a GT

Sleeve in

Sleeve out

 

[WildHorse]

The diameter change inside the intake tract is fairly significant with the sleeve removed. I did not measure it because I knew I was going to be omitting all that crap anyway.

I believe he believed that. But going from a 108 JLT to a 120 PMAS wasn't even 20%

 

[SheepDog]

I believe he believed that. But going from a 108 JLT to a 120 PMAS wasn't even 20%

We are talking about the MACH1 intake right? Considering this is a MACH1 Subforum? Look at the photos I just attached above. You don't need a micrometer to see that the difference in diameter is certainly more than 2.5mm. The plastic wall of the sleeve itself is at least 2mm

 

[chuckhammer]

My numbers were all for GT intakes. Mach 1 might be a bigger difference. Would be interested to know the specifics.

 

[rubyredponycar]

that's torque, not hp

Hp= torque x rpm.

Since we’re not changing anything else in the system more torque will mean more horsepower.

 

[SheepDog]

My numbers were all for GT intakes. Mach 1 might be a bigger difference. Would be interested to know the specifics.

Yeah, and since OP's car is a MACH1, I foolishly thought we were talking about MACH1 intakes, in the MACH 1 subforum

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