Lurker_350
Well-Known Member
I shared this thought until I saw the same marking on the upgraded USB connector that allows CarPlay on 2015/2016 tech cars. Now I am suspicious about a grand money grab parts scheme
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Epiphany
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I have been out of town, down in South Carolina and Georgia for Mustang Week. A little crazy down here with the hurricane but I hope to fly home tomorrow night. QA1 got the shaft back a few days ago and hopefully will have taken a good look at it. I'll update as soon as I have something.
H6G
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I perfectly understand.... thank you again.
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Epiphany
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- Thread starter
- #66
QA1 carbon fiber driveshaft is in and I'm very happy with the results both in terms of fitment and performance out on the road.
[ame]
I received a second unit from QA1 that is indeed not the same one that was sent to me previously. The SFI registration numbers were different and the front yoke had an additional balance hole drilled. Kudos to QA1 for shipping out another driveshaft almost immediately after receiving the one I sent back to them. I haven't heard from them with respect to how the first one balanced out but hope to some time in the future.
I wanted to share some of what I saw while undertaking the swap. You have to remove the exhaust system in order to gain access so once again I removed the FR Borla exhaust system (and rear undertray) and placed it aside.
I checked a few things including clearances prior to removing the factory shaft. Note that there are a few balance weights welded in different locations along the shaft(s). They effectively change the OD and reduce clearance, something QA1 doesn't do.
Clearance at the front of the shaft is tighter than anywhere else. I'm running an MGW shifter (surprise!) and there is roughly 1/2" clearance to the face of the bottom cap (or the shifter's lowest point).
Believe it or not, there is actually more clearance with the QA1 shaft which is a larger diameter than the factory shaft. How? Once again, there is a balance weight welded in place in close proximity to the center of the shifter box. Not the best photo but the best I could do what with limited room to fit a camera in there. This is a horizontal shot showing the balance weight in place below the shifter.
I took dimensions of the shafts will list them all in a bit. I also wanted to check the runout in various locations of both shafts. I figured the ends of each shaft would be similar (and they were) and was interested where they were in the center of the shaft as well.
The factory actually uses different diameter shafts in the front versus the rear and you should be able to see that in the following photo. The larger shaft (on top) is the front shaft and smaller (on bottom) is the rear.
[ame]
So about .025" runout in roughly the center of the shaft. With only 4k miles on the car I believe that the joints are in good shape. I also marked the shaft and yokes such that I could install it in the exact same place if I wanted to revert back from the CF to the original two-piece.
Side by side gives you a fairly good idea as to diameter and the changes therein on the two-piece.
Again, note the weight welded onto the front factory shaft which in effect increases its diameter with respect to shifter clearance.
The front shaft comes in right at 3" diameter.
The weight in this case projects .204" giving the factory front shaft an effective diameter of 3.408"...
The QA1 CF shaft comes in at 3.322" in diameter.
The rear factory shaft comes in at 2.756" in diameter.
Regarding the rear portion of either shaft, I like how QA1 is using a beefier CV joint than the original shaft.
Similar sized u-joints are used up front. You can see how much thicker the flange/yoke ears have to be on the aluminum when compared to the steel unit as well.
I spent quite a bit of time cleaning the factory flange holes as well as the original bolts in case I ever needed to reuse them. QA1 provides all new fasteners due to the front flange being thicker (because it is aluminum) and in the rear due to the spacer that goes in between the pinion yoke and the CV joint.
If you don't clean the yoke/flange threads you'll get inaccurate torque readings when doing the install. So if you are doing this, metric taps are necessary.
Surprisingly, the factory fasteners are high quality. The QA1 are even higher. Socket headed capscrews are about as strong as you are going to get and provide maximum clearance.
Factory bolt sizes are:
Front are a 12.9 M12 x 1.75 ~28mm UHL
Rear are a 10.9 M10 x 1.50 ~53mm UHL
QA1 bolts are:
Front are a Holo-Krome International 12.9 M12 x 1.75 ~32mm UHL
Rear are a Holo-Krome International 12.9 M10 x 1.50 ~66mm UHL
Rear (adapter ring) are a Holo-Krome International 12.9 M10 x 1.50 ~36mm UHL
The adapter ring that mates the CV joint to the pinion flange is very well done. It literally snapped into place and fit perfectly.
Installing the QA1 shaft at this point was easy. You simply hold it up in place and draw the CV joint shaft out (which extends the as delivered OAL length) and slip the bolts into place. Be sure to use thread locker on each fastener. I used medium strength TL.
You need to have the right allen sockets to use a torque wrench and clearances for the head of the wrench are tight but doable. QA1 provides all the requisite torque figures in their included instructions.
Runout was improved at ~.015" compared to ~.025" for the factory shaft.
[ame]
I did remove the foam from the underside of the MGW shifter as I don't ever want to have to worry about any road debris getting trapped between the CF shaft and the shifter box.
Clearance is no less than that of the factory driveshaft (due to the welded balance weight).
QA1 provides a chart for clearance dimensions between their driveshaft yoke face at the rear to the CV joint. They show you where to measure and in the case of the GT350 they list 3" as the maximum clearance dimension. I was right there.
A concern I mentioned earlier in this thread was shaft clearance to the exhaust system. While I no longer have the factory system in place, the FR Borla system closely mimics the available room when in proximity to the driveshaft. As much as QA1 uses a bonding agent that can handle up to 300* I still wanted to be as far away as possible to direct heat sources. I'm glad I welded the rear factory exhaust heat shields to the Borla system, if for anything, an additional buffer. The yokes extend into the CF tube about 6" or so and that is where the "glue" is. A shot from underneath shows the rear shields to line up well in this regard.
There is no less than 5" of air space between the shields and the shaft at the rear.
Plenty of clearance up front too.
Clearance the entire length...
The rear belly pan went back on quickly. I cleaned everything up and hit the road. With my senses in hyper mode - color me very happy. The drivetrain is now completely calm and extremely smooth. The FPC engine is no less cranky and I didn't expect it to be. Can I feel any difference in power? Between the exhaust and the shaft change - absolutely. A small bump mind you but noticeable nonetheless. Shifts are very smooth whether up or down.
All said, this mod gets a definite thumbs up from me.
[ame]
I received a second unit from QA1 that is indeed not the same one that was sent to me previously. The SFI registration numbers were different and the front yoke had an additional balance hole drilled. Kudos to QA1 for shipping out another driveshaft almost immediately after receiving the one I sent back to them. I haven't heard from them with respect to how the first one balanced out but hope to some time in the future.
I wanted to share some of what I saw while undertaking the swap. You have to remove the exhaust system in order to gain access so once again I removed the FR Borla exhaust system (and rear undertray) and placed it aside.
I checked a few things including clearances prior to removing the factory shaft. Note that there are a few balance weights welded in different locations along the shaft(s). They effectively change the OD and reduce clearance, something QA1 doesn't do.
Clearance at the front of the shaft is tighter than anywhere else. I'm running an MGW shifter (surprise!) and there is roughly 1/2" clearance to the face of the bottom cap (or the shifter's lowest point).
Believe it or not, there is actually more clearance with the QA1 shaft which is a larger diameter than the factory shaft. How? Once again, there is a balance weight welded in place in close proximity to the center of the shifter box. Not the best photo but the best I could do what with limited room to fit a camera in there. This is a horizontal shot showing the balance weight in place below the shifter.
I took dimensions of the shafts will list them all in a bit. I also wanted to check the runout in various locations of both shafts. I figured the ends of each shaft would be similar (and they were) and was interested where they were in the center of the shaft as well.
The factory actually uses different diameter shafts in the front versus the rear and you should be able to see that in the following photo. The larger shaft (on top) is the front shaft and smaller (on bottom) is the rear.
[ame]
So about .025" runout in roughly the center of the shaft. With only 4k miles on the car I believe that the joints are in good shape. I also marked the shaft and yokes such that I could install it in the exact same place if I wanted to revert back from the CF to the original two-piece.
Side by side gives you a fairly good idea as to diameter and the changes therein on the two-piece.
Again, note the weight welded onto the front factory shaft which in effect increases its diameter with respect to shifter clearance.
The front shaft comes in right at 3" diameter.
The weight in this case projects .204" giving the factory front shaft an effective diameter of 3.408"...
The QA1 CF shaft comes in at 3.322" in diameter.
The rear factory shaft comes in at 2.756" in diameter.
Regarding the rear portion of either shaft, I like how QA1 is using a beefier CV joint than the original shaft.
Similar sized u-joints are used up front. You can see how much thicker the flange/yoke ears have to be on the aluminum when compared to the steel unit as well.
I spent quite a bit of time cleaning the factory flange holes as well as the original bolts in case I ever needed to reuse them. QA1 provides all new fasteners due to the front flange being thicker (because it is aluminum) and in the rear due to the spacer that goes in between the pinion yoke and the CV joint.
If you don't clean the yoke/flange threads you'll get inaccurate torque readings when doing the install. So if you are doing this, metric taps are necessary.
Surprisingly, the factory fasteners are high quality. The QA1 are even higher.
Socket headed capscrews are about as strong as you are going to get and provide maximum clearance.
Factory bolt sizes are:
Front are a 12.9 M12 x 1.75 ~28mm UHL
Rear are a 10.9 M10 x 1.50 ~53mm UHL
QA1 bolts are:
Front are a Holo-Krome International 12.9 M12 x 1.75 ~32mm UHL
Rear are a Holo-Krome International 12.9 M10 x 1.50 ~66mm UHL
Rear (adapter ring) are a Holo-Krome International 12.9 M10 x 1.50 ~36mm UHL
The adapter ring that mates the CV joint to the pinion flange is very well done. It literally snapped into place and fit perfectly.
Installing the QA1 shaft at this point was easy. You simply hold it up in place and draw the CV joint shaft out (which extends the as delivered OAL length) and slip the bolts into place. Be sure to use thread locker on each fastener. I used medium strength TL.
You need to have the right allen sockets to use a torque wrench and clearances for the head of the wrench are tight but doable. QA1 provides all the requisite torque figures in their included instructions.
Runout was improved at ~.015" compared to ~.025" for the factory shaft.
[ame]
I did remove the foam from the underside of the MGW shifter as I don't ever want to have to worry about any road debris getting trapped between the CF shaft and the shifter box.
Clearance is no less than that of the factory driveshaft (due to the welded balance weight).
QA1 provides a chart for clearance dimensions between their driveshaft yoke face at the rear to the CV joint. They show you where to measure and in the case of the GT350 they list 3" as the maximum clearance dimension. I was right there.
A concern I mentioned earlier in this thread was shaft clearance to the exhaust system. While I no longer have the factory system in place, the FR Borla system closely mimics the available room when in proximity to the driveshaft. As much as QA1 uses a bonding agent that can handle up to 300* I still wanted to be as far away as possible to direct heat sources. I'm glad I welded the rear factory exhaust heat shields to the Borla system, if for anything, an additional buffer. The yokes extend into the CF tube about 6" or so and that is where the "glue" is. A shot from underneath shows the rear shields to line up well in this regard.
There is no less than 5" of air space between the shields and the shaft at the rear.
Plenty of clearance up front too.
Clearance the entire length...
The rear belly pan went back on quickly. I cleaned everything up and hit the road. With my senses in hyper mode - color me very happy. The drivetrain is now completely calm and extremely smooth. The FPC engine is no less cranky and I didn't expect it to be. Can I feel any difference in power? Between the exhaust and the shaft change - absolutely. A small bump mind you but noticeable nonetheless. Shifts are very smooth whether up or down.
All said, this mod gets a definite thumbs up from me.
Offboost
Well-Known Member
I would be interested to see if you notice any vibrations at higher speeds like 120+
In past vehicles with 1 piece shafts I noticed all the same improvements as you until I got into the higher speeds then had very bad high speed vibrations that shook the car badly. Putting back in the 2 piece shafts corrected the issues.
I hope this is not going to be the case with this shaft for you and if not provides hope for some of us!
Nice write up again as usual for you!
In past vehicles with 1 piece shafts I noticed all the same improvements as you until I got into the higher speeds then had very bad high speed vibrations that shook the car badly. Putting back in the 2 piece shafts corrected the issues.
I hope this is not going to be the case with this shaft for you and if not provides hope for some of us!
Nice write up again as usual for you!
BMR Tech
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Very nice @Epiphany - vettttttty nice.
What I would also like to touch on a bit further, as I caught a mention of it in the review above; drive-ability.
People usually tend to base their DS upgrade around weight savings and acceleration improvement, but that is only scratching the surface.
As mentioned by Epiphany above, the GT350 front portion of the DS is mated to the transmission solidly with no "Giubo Joint" like the other model S550 cars have. (auto V8 cars do not have them btw)
Well this solid F/R mounted 2-pc driveshaft is without question one of the things I absolutely despise about the 2005-Current Mustangs. (I understand and accept why they chose to use them)
When you upgrade to a 1-pc DS like this one, the difference is immediately noticed. The engineering behind it, the fact is is CF with some "flex" and ridding of the sloppy harmonics is situation in which is IMO, totally winning.
One of the traits of the modern car's 2-pc DS that is very bothersome to me (especially if I dropped the $$$ on a GT350) is the clickity clackity clunkity that they emit through the drive-line. This sloppy oscillation prevents the driver from truly feeling the car working, and also prevents the driver from being able to "truly" drive the car. Many do not know this as they drive and get accustomed to their new vehicle and they love it, but we all cater our driving styles to our S550s whether we know it or not. My example for this would be, driving these cars for the first time you get that sloppy and jerky feeling that you end up changing the clutch release methods and shifting styles to make the car "behave" better - but once you install a good DS such as this one, you change your driving style as you do not have the driveline "wind up" and unloading anywhere near the level it was with the multipiece unit.
10lbs less rotating mass, MUCH stronger, smoother shifts and better driving characteristics...and just one AWESOME looking piece. This would be the first modification to my GT350 (just like a 1-pc was the first mod to my S550 GTs, both auto and my MT82 car)
Excellent!
What I would also like to touch on a bit further, as I caught a mention of it in the review above; drive-ability.
People usually tend to base their DS upgrade around weight savings and acceleration improvement, but that is only scratching the surface.
As mentioned by Epiphany above, the GT350 front portion of the DS is mated to the transmission solidly with no "Giubo Joint" like the other model S550 cars have. (auto V8 cars do not have them btw)
Well this solid F/R mounted 2-pc driveshaft is without question one of the things I absolutely despise about the 2005-Current Mustangs. (I understand and accept why they chose to use them)
When you upgrade to a 1-pc DS like this one, the difference is immediately noticed. The engineering behind it, the fact is is CF with some "flex" and ridding of the sloppy harmonics is situation in which is IMO, totally winning.
One of the traits of the modern car's 2-pc DS that is very bothersome to me (especially if I dropped the $$$ on a GT350) is the clickity clackity clunkity that they emit through the drive-line. This sloppy oscillation prevents the driver from truly feeling the car working, and also prevents the driver from being able to "truly" drive the car. Many do not know this as they drive and get accustomed to their new vehicle and they love it, but we all cater our driving styles to our S550s whether we know it or not. My example for this would be, driving these cars for the first time you get that sloppy and jerky feeling that you end up changing the clutch release methods and shifting styles to make the car "behave" better - but once you install a good DS such as this one, you change your driving style as you do not have the driveline "wind up" and unloading anywhere near the level it was with the multipiece unit.
10lbs less rotating mass, MUCH stronger, smoother shifts and better driving characteristics...and just one AWESOME looking piece. This would be the first modification to my GT350 (just like a 1-pc was the first mod to my S550 GTs, both auto and my MT82 car)
Excellent!
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xXANCHORMONXx
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Damn I might have to get this..
H6G
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I would like to know as well...... Have you had a chance to do a high speed test? A few years ago, I've installed a one piece driveshaft on my (LS3) SS. Although, it was not a CF shaft... it produced a very noticeable vibration. And it seemed proportional to the speed of the car.
Many thanks for such helpful and detailed installation info. I intend to use this during my installation. BTW, the pics are outstanding!
KiLLeR2001
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CF driveshaft combined with some lightweight forged aluminum wheels are sounding pretty good right about now. Pretty... pretty... pretty... good.
Burnin4
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Ive been harassing Weld for the past 2 weeks, they are supposed to be releasing a set in the near future. full exhaust, tune, wheels, some bmr goodies, and this QA ds would make for a nice street machine.
OP, bravo on the write up, congrats and thank you :cheers:
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Bravo. Excellent write up and detailed information. Great job making it understandable as well
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