Honey Badger's Completely Off-the-Rails Race Car Build and Track Adventure Thread

[Trackaholic]

Did your ABS light come on? I was at the track with my buddy who has a Viper ACR. Well, just as his instructor was taking the Viper out to set some benchmark laps, the ABS acted up. Turned out that a tiny piece of metal had been picked up from the track and flung off the tire, bounced around in the wheel well, and lodged between the teeth on the ABS wheel, giving a bad reading once per rotation. I was actually able to eventually find that little piece, pull it out of the sensor wheel, and the car ran perfectly after. However, when the ABS died the brake bias automatically went full forward, which totally messed up the handling (but I guess it's safer than locking up the rears). Does the GT350 have exposed sensor areas that could pick something up from the track in a similar manner?

Maybe it's just the loose wheel bearings.

-T

 

[honeybadger]

I had abs issues due to a couple elements(magnets) in the magnetic ring failing. Not sure if I threw it away.
When I got the hub off, I was able to hang a paper clip from a string and slowly move it around the ring to see deflection.
Somewhere I have a magnetic field viewing film that also works to check ABS mag rings.

See this before, bearing on magnetic try = oops


ATE 760130 ABS Test Card for Magnetic Sensor Wheels:
https://www.amazon.com/ATE-760130-Magnetic-Sensor-Wheels/dp/B003VXPHW4

https://www.google.com/search?q=Magnetic+Field+Viewing+Film

https://www.google.com/search?q=testing+abs+magnetic+ring

In 30 years I have seen this twice: once was impact damage from debris, other was heat induced.

So if you get hubs hot enough from brakes, and grease cooks out, then bearing overheats, you could overheat the magnet ring and they loose strength fast if overheated.

As @JAJ said, I don't think this applies to the GT350 hub, but I appreciate the response trying to help. THanks!

this has probably already been asked but what all do you have done to your suspension?

I started out with the FP lowering springs and sway bars a long time ago when I had stock aero. I've been upgrading as I broke stuff - which turned out to be a lot of the aero. So now I have a wing/splitter combo that's fairly aggressive and I'm learning that is overwhelming the stock setup. Going to upgrade the rear springs to get more spring rate and then hopefully coilovers next. Still the original shock absorbers and controller.

Did your ABS light come on? I was at the track with my buddy who has a Viper ACR. Well, just as his instructor was taking the Viper out to set some benchmark laps, the ABS acted up. Turned out that a tiny piece of metal had been picked up from the track and flung off the tire, bounced around in the wheel well, and lodged between the teeth on the ABS wheel, giving a bad reading once per rotation. I was actually able to eventually find that little piece, pull it out of the sensor wheel, and the car ran perfectly after. However, when the ABS died the brake bias automatically went full forward, which totally messed up the handling (but I guess it's safer than locking up the rears). Does the GT350 have exposed sensor areas that could pick something up from the track in a similar manner?

Maybe it's just the loose wheel bearings.

-T

No abs light - only traction control light. I think i found it - a loosened arm in the rear allowing some extra play. We'll see in December.

Regarding the speed sensor - it's enclosed. I'll try to grab a photo when I install the BMR rear springs.

 

[sigintel]

Ok, so I get that there's an interesting thing happening in the Mustang GT world, but you're on the GT350 section of the forum and none of what you've posted applies to GT350's. Totally different setup. GT350 front wheel bearings/hubs are sealed units that not only don't have this problem, they literally can't have this problem. They're that different.

Sadly, Ford has encouraged people to believe that GT's, GT PP1's, GT PP2's, and Mach 1's are just GT350's with different badges stuck on. They're totally different cars. The only tech that crosses over from Shelby's to Mustangs is the outline of the chassis. Everything else is different.

Are you sure? I must be super silly

Here’s a bunk GT350 tone ring:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/attachments/upload_2020-7-17_7-47-34-png.489072/

Fords not sad, thats exactly what we need for sales! Having people feel like they can drive a car 90% capable as a GT350 and looks 95% as sexy. well heck, those sales are what makes the GT350/500 possible financially.

I need to dig the GT350 suspension back out of moth balls and take a look. I pulled it off the whippled 15 its last season. Im old and forgets and too many other track cars currently so havent got around to bolting the GT350 loaded K onto the 18.
…and putting the ecoboost trunk fascia on
…and the debadged ecoboost fenders
…and low mount TT

and no, an ecoboost badged Whippled GT w 350 suspension is not a GT350 or GT500 (2 yrs prior to GT500 anyway). Its all about fun.

 

[JAJ]

Are you sure? I must be super silly

Here’s a bunk GT350 tone ring:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/attachments/upload_2020-7-17_7-47-34-png.489072/

Fords not sad, thats exactly what we need for sales! Having people feel like they can drive a car 90% capable as a GT350 and looks 95% as sexy. well heck, those sales are what makes the GT350/500 possible financially.

I need to dig the GT350 suspension back out of moth balls and take a look. I pulled it off the whippled 15 its last season. Im old and forgets and too many other track cars currently so havent got around to bolting the GT350 loaded K onto the 18.
…and putting the ecoboost trunk fascia on
…and the debadged ecoboost fenders
…and low mount TT

and no, an ecoboost badged Whippled GT w 350 suspension is not a GT350 or GT500 (2 yrs prior to GT500 anyway). Its all about fun.

Fair enough, maybe I was a bit harsh, but while the front wheel hanger on a GT350 includes a tone ring, the overall assembly is very different.

The wheel hub and bearing came across from an SUV and it's much more robust than the regular GT wheel bearing in the video. The wheel studs are also from an SUV and they're used on the GT350, GT500 and the Ford GT. While that same hub appears to be used on magride GT's, the GT350 has a massive cast (more likely forged) aluminum front knuckle while the Mustang engineers kept an iron knuckle.

Taken together, the thermal capacity and rigidity of the GT350 setup is much greater than the GT setup, and along with the two-piece GT350 brake rotors, the prospect that brake heat will damage the wheel bearings is negligible. Same with pad knock-back - the GT350 assembly is just too stiff to bend under sideloads.

What I was reacting to is the messaging that's coming across more often from the GT crowd talking about "I had this problem on my track car and I fixed it this way so here it is if it happens to your GT350 or GT500". Ford Performance found and solved a lot of problems when they developed the cars, so the FP cars tend not to have the same problems as GT's. They're not problem free, but the nature of the problems is different. For instance, a recent example is the quote from the chief engineer on the Mach 1 where he explained that it's designed to understeer. Understeer is a problem that GT350 and GT350R owners don't talk about much.

 

[honeybadger]

Some more photos from the October event.

Hoping to get some time over thanksgiving week to finalize my starter replacement, new wood-splitter design, and a few other small tweaks. Damn house projects are getting in the way of my wrenching time

 

[Hack]

Understeer is a problem that GT350 and GT350R owners don't talk about much.

The GT350 has a fair amount of understeer designed in when the car is in stock form. I've seen Randy Pobst complain about it in a couple reviews. I try not to complain about it, because it's safe.

 

[honeybadger]

Welp, got thrown a bit of a curveball this week that's not looking great. I was replacing some o-rings around the water pump because I found an external coolant leak.

I did find a bolt on the front engine cover that had backed out a bit right under the water pump.

Finished that up and went to drain some oil out of the pan a good bit of coolant came out cup or two. Car's been sitting since October, so no idea if that happened while I was doing tests on the cooling system back then or what. Either way, I fully drained the oiling system, finished my coolant maintenance, re-filled the system and re-pressurized it. No external leaks, no noticeable pressure or coolant level drop. I thought great.

Well I left the system pressured over night and went and pulled the drain plug again after the pressure had dropped from 19 PSI to 18 PSI in about 14 hours. About a tablespoon of coolant came out.

I pulled the plugs and ran a cylinder leak down. Engine is obviously cold, so the results are a bit off. But nothing appears to be out of spec (lowest of 7 and highest of 13) and none of the "leaking" appears to be anywhere but past the rings.

Not 100% sure on next steps - but my thoughts are it has to be a head gasket or a crack in the block.

 

[Lurker_350]

I haven't looked closely at the oil filter adapter, but I think the only oil cooling is via the front mounted air-oil radiator (i.e., no coolant-based oil cooling).

Is there an oil cooling circuit that uses coolant on the oil filter housing? I don't think there is on the gt350, but I know lots of cars have them. That would be an easier fix than the other options you identified!

Good luck!

 

[stanglife]

Do the same test and use borescope to see if there is any water sitting on the piston top.

also maybe it was leftover moisture/condensation from the original find?

 

[honeybadger]

I haven't looked closely at the oil filter adapter, but I think the only oil cooling is via the front mounted air-oil radiator (i.e., no coolant-based oil cooling).

Is there an oil cooling circuit that uses coolant on the oil filter housing? I don't think there is on the gt350, but I know lots of cars have them. That would be an easier fix than the other options you identified!

Good luck!

I can't find a photo of it mounted, but nope. Only and in/out on the block. Below is my adapter for an external oil filter housing. I'm not aware of anywhere coolant/oil would interact outside of through a cracked block/head or blown HG.

 

[honeybadger]

Do the same test and use borescope to see if there is any water sitting on the piston top.

also maybe it was leftover moisture/condensation from the original find?

Did that - no visible signs of it in the combustion chamber.

 

[JAJ]

I don't think there's any place the block could crack that wouldn't show up in a leakdown test, so I think you can rule that out. Ditto the heads.

That leaves the head gaskets, which can leak across from water to oil without affecting compression or leakdown.

 

[honeybadger]

I don't think there's any place the block could crack that wouldn't show up in a leakdown test, so I think you can rule that out. Ditto the heads.

That leaves the head gaskets, which can leak across from water to oil without affecting compression or leakdown.

I'm hoping it's just a head gasket allowing coolant to leak down into a oil drain back tube

 

[honeybadger]

AS a follow-up, I reached out to Tim after a kind gent on IG recommended some GM Coolant Seal Tabs based off of rec's from some reputable coyote-based engine builders. Tim reiterated this advice. Going to add some tabs and get it up to temp and re-rest.

At this point, these damn race engines give me heart palpitations. I need to start building a spare for my sanity.

Edit:

Tim's explanation on the tabs:
"Its from the brass plugs that are machined to plug up the cross coolant passages. We have started to recommend to use those tablets in our instruction sheet after similar slow leaks. Darton recommends that you use those tabs in everything that’s sleeved. Its just to dissimilar metals with different expansion rates.

 

[shogun32]

I need to start building a spare for my sanity.

some guy here on M6G posted the other day with like 5 spare engines sitting on his garage floor