Guess the 2015 5.0 Coyote HP and TQ numbers

[Pablo GT350]

So does this mean we're unlikely to see decent power gains from a headers, catback exhaust, cold air intake, etc?

No, you'll see gains. This motor will take to mods even better than the Boss did.

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[Tim Hilliard]

To everybody who was, um, excessively optimistic about the 2015 numbers: you should've read this very detailed article about the BOSS engine

http://www.mustangandfords.com/car-reviews/m5lp-1108-2011-ford-mustang-302/

It shows just how much work it took for the relatively modest bump from 408 to 444 hp (yes I know it's overall behavior is different). I was left with the impression that the coyote was already pretty much maxed out as design. That's why I didn't have very high expectations for the 2015 model.

 

[c3po]

So does this mean we're unlikely to see decent power gains from a headers, catback exhaust, cold air intake, etc?

See, this is what I don't get, and perhaps all of you gear heads that have forgotten more about engines than I'll ever know can help me with this: How is it that Ford can put all that time and effort with so many engine upgrades and only see an additional 15/20 HP/TRQ when I read how simple and inexpensive it is to get a tune, or CAI, or headers, or upgraded exhausts and get just as much (and more, often times) power and/or torque? Or, does Ford's internal upgrades do a lot more for power under the curve than the "peripheral" upgrades that we consumers do? If that's the case, than it seems to me that it's a good thing they made the improvements where they did so we can simply add power the way most of us would and see even greater gains.

I thought about starting a new thread regarding this. I certainly can't speak for the majority on this forum, because it seems that many of you are pretty educated in the automotive field but I'd like some opinions about this. Myself, I'm learning on the fly just by reading these posts.

Thanks!

 

[Tim Hilliard]

No, you'll see gains. This motor will take to mods even better than the Boss did.

How? It's an extremely efficient air pump from the factory, short of changing the atmosphere it operates in (Supercharging) it can only draw in a fixed amount of air to mix with fuel to burn. You can spend a lot of money for minimal gains, yes technically you can improve it, but it's already near the limit. Raising the upper rpm limit will net more peak power, that's just basic math, but again short of time on a dyno with $$$ on exhaust and intake what do you expect to see. It would probably hit 450HP with just a tune and revving it higher than the factory limit. That is dependent on what drive line loss calculation you decide to use.

 

[Pablo GT350]

How? It's an extremely efficient air pump from the factory, short of changing the atmosphere it operates in (Supercharging) it can only draw in a fixed amount of air to mix with fuel to burn. You can spend a lot of money for minimal gains, yes technically you can improve it, but it's already near the limit. Raising the upper rpm limit will net more peak power, that's just basic math, but again short of time on a dyno with $$$ on exhaust and intake what do you expect to see. It would probably hit 450HP with just a tune and revving it higher than the factory limit. That is dependent on what drive line loss calculation you decide to use.

there you go. you answered your own question.

 

[Tim Hilliard]

there you go. you answered your own question.

LOL but how much is that going to cost? If people didn't see expected gains on Boss bolt-ons why do you think that happened? It's already optimized. Obviously there is still room in most factory engines but we are talking about an engine that gives up 1.2-1.4 Liters to it's stable mates and is just as fast. You can't even include the 5.7 Hemi, the most boring car to drive, the engine belongs in a truck. 5.0 gets better economy than everyone else and still carries the rated HP numbers. The Skat Pack is just the old SRT engine...which was a a pig, great power but GM does a better job on the Camaro/C7 power and economy numbers but not as efficient as the 5.0. :hail::ford:

 

[Tim Hilliard]

If the aftermarket had the resources to take the engine, put it in a real cell with repeat-ability, do all the testing on the engine dyno, full exhaust, intake system etc. develop tunes(rough) you would have a real comparison. Chassis dyno's are tuning devices but not repeatable(especially the drum(inertia) type. Just the percentage of tire slip can make you look like a hero or a zero. The pod type chassis dyno's (they bolt to the axle hubs) make people honest in a hurry. You need to have the ability to select load points to have real data, when someone other than Ford starts doing that, I will start paying attention to the claims.

 

[langweiler]

yeah a bit disappointed because our 2007 BMW M6 pulls out 505hp from it´s NA 5.0; ok it´s a V10 but you can get it used relative cheap and it´s still a looker with nice performance.
And the ne camaro will use the corvette engine with 450hp and 440 torque.

o dear Ford, the coyote is such a nice engine...give it your Ford Racing Supercharger and blow it to safe 550hp for a regular GT !! and blast the competition.
I´m sure it will match the new eco specs like EURO 6 Norm.

 

[Pablo GT350]

Well headers, cat delete, and tune are guaranteed to show some nice gains under the curve. Is it cheap to mod a NA motor? No its not but I expect these to be the best bang per buck mods.

 

[Brent302]

yeah a bit disappointed because our 2007 BMW M6 pulls out 505hp from it´s NA 5.0; ok it´s a V10 but you can get it used relative cheap and it´s still a looker with nice performance.
And the ne camaro will use the corvette engine with 450hp and 440 torque.

o dear Ford, the coyote is such a nice engine...give it your Ford Racing Supercharger and blow it to safe 550hp for a regular GT !! and blast the competition.
I´m sure it will match the new eco specs like EURO 6 Norm.

Until you have to get that M6 fixed...

 

[Grimace427]

How? It's an extremely efficient air pump from the factory, short of changing the atmosphere it operates in (Supercharging) it can only draw in a fixed amount of air to mix with fuel to burn. You can spend a lot of money for minimal gains, yes technically you can improve it, but it's already near the limit. Raising the upper rpm limit will net more peak power, that's just basic math, but again short of time on a dyno with $$$ on exhaust and intake what do you expect to see. It would probably hit 450HP with just a tune and revving it higher than the factory limit. That is dependent on what drive line loss calculation you decide to use.

All the work Ford has done for the 2015 5.0 has in fact increased the power limit. This new engine will respond better to mods than the previous engine for several reasons; stronger rods for greater RPM limits, freer flowing heads and cams for breathing at those upper RPM's, and greater control over Ti-VCT phasing so tuners can extract even more power and do so safely(PTV clearance).

The previous Coyote wasn't anywhere near the design limits off the showroom. Stock you could expect maybe 360-370rwhp on a dynojet. Tune alone would be around 390rwhp(with other benefits like throttle response and torque curve), off-road midpipe up again to say 400-410rwhp. Long tube headers, Boss intake, and 7,500rpm redline would net you 440rwhp with a wicked tune from AED or Rev Auto for instance. That's 80rwhp from bolt-ons.

After most people exhausted the simple bolt-on routes they would then turn to engine internals, especially cams. FRPP 'mini-CJ' exhaust cams which featured the same 11mm lift but 290 duration could take that bolt-on 440rwhp Coyote up to around 470rwhp. A CJ intake manifold with oval throttle body could tickle 500rwhp(been done twice on S197forums). Serious cams like Comp Stage 2 or 3 with ported heads have gone to 520rwhp on dynojets and even a Mustang Dyno which reads conservatively compared to the dynojet. That is a gain of 160rwhp without forced induction or increasing the displacement. What Ford has done is do all the hard stuff that would have required us to tear into the engine, and put it there stock off the showroom.

There are more than a dozen N/A Coyote S197s with little more than bolt-ons and cams running 10's in the 1/4 mile. Stock the Coyote isn't near it's limits.

o dear Ford, the coyote is such a nice engine...give it your Ford Racing Supercharger and blow it to safe 550hp for a regular GT !! and blast the competition.

No. I don't want a $50,000 Mustang GT.

 

[Brent302]

How? It's an extremely efficient air pump from the factory, short of changing the atmosphere it operates in (Supercharging) it can only draw in a fixed amount of air to mix with fuel to burn. You can spend a lot of money for minimal gains, yes technically you can improve it, but it's already near the limit. Raising the upper rpm limit will net more peak power, that's just basic math, but again short of time on a dyno with $$$ on exhaust and intake what do you expect to see. It would probably hit 450HP with just a tune and revving it higher than the factory limit. That is dependent on what drive line loss calculation you decide to use.

The 5.0 is hardly near its limits NA. Just watch this video.

LOL but how much is that going to cost? If people didn't see expected gains on Boss bolt-ons why do you think that happened? It's already optimized. Obviously there is still room in most factory engines but we are talking about an engine that gives up 1.2-1.4 Liters to it's stable mates and is just as fast. You can't even include the 5.7 Hemi, the most boring car to drive, the engine belongs in a truck. 5.0 gets better economy than everyone else and still carries the rated HP numbers. The Skat Pack is just the old SRT engine...which was a a pig, great power but GM does a better job on the Camaro/C7 power and economy numbers but not as efficient as the 5.0. :hail::ford:

I can tell you have never driven a 5.7 R/T. The same things you say i said before I bought my 2010 R/T classic.

It has LOADS of torque available right at launch. Which for DD and stop lights allows for tons of fun and tire chirping through 3rd. It's downside is the 5800 rev limit. Trust me i won't miss the wheel hop lol but don't bash it because you want your retort what the haters say. For being 4080 pounds the R/T has punch.

 

[langweiler]

No. I don't want a $50,000 Mustang GT.

problem is, most of our sporty engines in europe are Turbo´s or Supercharged. The Mustang will face these and i fear it cant compete. Unfortunately it´s relative expensive too due import tax.
Did a quick research at a online portal for used cars and find some 2-3year old AUDI RS5/BMW M3 in that price range with low mileage.

perhaps it´s Mustangs debut in europe and the buyers will have to wait a few years to get it for a adequate price.
We saw this when the Camaro comes out in 2011 i think it was. At that time chevy priced the SS up to 45000€ (60000$ !) equal with an import Mustang S197 GT Premium. Nowadays you can get a new Craparo for 35000€ !

The first S550 GT are offered for 53000€ (71000$ !), sure import and no FORD dealer, but that says something.
For that you can get a 1year old low mileage C63 AMG or a base C7.

conclusion for me: I like very much the coyote engine and it´s sound since i drove it a few thousand km on our autobahn. But if Ford really offer it at these price ranges there are other cars which come to my interest too. The C7 i sit in was very nice with interior design, looks sharp and sounds great with it´s 4 trompete´s of jericho.

 

[Tim Hilliard]

The 5.0 is hardly near its limits NA. Just watch this video.

Yes because that's the same thing that comes from the factory. That is not anywhere near resembling OE design limits. That is not a bolt on car. That is (reading the comments) about a $10-15K engine. We were, or at least I was having a discussion about the ability for the factory engine to accept simple bolt-ons and not spending $4K in the process.

I can tell you have never driven a 5.7 R/T. The same things you say i said before I bought my 2010 R/T classic.

Actually I did and it's slow and doesn't handle very well at all. My test-drive consisted of bouncing off the rev limiter. I was ready to buy a Challenger until I drove one. Looking for a car that doesn't drag it's rocker panel on the ground through a turn. I was unaware of the wheel hop issue, maybe because I was distracted from the low rpm tow truck engine and trying to shift the sloppy shifter but this car is not in the league of Mustang Camaro.

It has LOADS of torque available right at launch. Which for DD and stop lights allows for tons of fun and tire chirping through 3rd. It's downside is the 5800 rev limit. Trust me i won't miss the wheel hop lol but don't bash it because you want your retort what the haters say. For being 4080 pounds the R/T has punch.

I used to chirp 3rd in my '84 Turbo Coupe running 30lbs of boost but I'm not in 1993 anymore and I'm looking for something different out of my car. That punch you feel is the 3.90 rear axle ratio and a low first gear to move a lot of mass. It is not really that strong of a motor, it was when it came out a decade ago, not today. The customer base is fine with it and they sell everyone they build. Again, different class of car.

If you have ever driven a 1LE Camaro you would understand what a proper handling car feels like.

 

[Tim Hilliard]

All the work Ford has done for the 2015 5.0 has in fact increased the power limit. This new engine will respond better to mods than the previous engine for several reasons; stronger rods for greater RPM limits, freer flowing heads and cams for breathing at those upper RPM's, and greater control over Ti-VCT phasing so tuners can extract even more power and do so safely(PTV clearance).

The previous Coyote wasn't anywhere near the design limits off the showroom. Stock you could expect maybe 360-370rwhp on a dynojet. Tune alone would be around 390rwhp(with other benefits like throttle response and torque curve), off-road midpipe up again to say 400-410rwhp. Long tube headers, Boss intake, and 7,500rpm redline would net you 440rwhp with a wicked tune from AED or Rev Auto for instance. That's 80rwhp from bolt-ons.

After most people exhausted the simple bolt-on routes they would then turn to engine internals, especially cams. FRPP 'mini-CJ' exhaust cams which featured the same 11mm lift but 290 duration could take that bolt-on 440rwhp Coyote up to around 470rwhp. A CJ intake manifold with oval throttle body could tickle 500rwhp(been done twice on S197forums). Serious cams like Comp Stage 2 or 3 with ported heads have gone to 520rwhp on dynojets and even a Mustang Dyno which reads conservatively compared to the dynojet. That is a gain of 160rwhp without forced induction or increasing the displacement.

What Ford has done is do all the hard stuff that would have required us to tear into the engine, and put it there stock off the showroom.

I come from a different time when ported heads, cams etc. were really not bolt-ons. All the things you mentioned above are outside the design limits of the engine. Again discussing true bolt-ons that do not make the car illegal in my State for one, cost more than a blower would(most of what you mentioned above is serious money) and yeah pretend to keep any kind of warranty.

There are more than a dozen N/A Coyote S197s with little more than bolt-ons and cams running 10's in the 1/4 mile. Stock the Coyote isn't near it's limits.

No. I don't want a $50,000 Mustang GT.

You just prefer to build your own with "bolt-ons"? I had customers that bought new Mustangs ($18K) and proceeded to do "bolt-ons" until they were driving around in $30K 500-600HP Mustangs. Circa 1994, I'm having trouble following your bolt-on logic.

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