Carbon wheel damage

[_M_]

Opinions? Damage seems to be limited to the thermoceramic coating.

Outside of the fact that Ford should’ve put 20” wheels on this car, I think this is inevitable if you actually drive and/or track your car. The brakes are scratched to hell too. That’s actually a sign of how strong the coating may be.

Both brake calipers are scratched

Sponsored

 

[el-guapin]

Wouldn’t this fall under warranty?. Check with dealer first.

 

[_M_]

Wouldn’t this fall under warranty?. Check with dealer first.

I think someone else on here was able to get a replacement with similar damage.

If it’s not major I’m not rushing to it. Sent pics to my dealer. They are pretty good at handling stuff. So we shall see.

 

[GTthree50]

There has been much discussed about this kind of damage. Almost certainly caused by stones getting into the slimmest clearance areas. If somebody was able to get a warranty replacement, great luck for them but this is not what looks like a warranty issue. I do agree 20" wheels are great for these cars and there is a better chance that the extra clearance a 20 would afford might have prevented this.

 

[_M_]

There has been much discussed about this kind of damage. Almost certainly caused by stones getting into the slimmest clearance areas. If somebody was able to get a warranty replacement, great luck for them but this is not what looks like a warranty issue. I do agree 20" wheels are great for these cars and there is a better chance that the extra clearance a 20 would afford might have prevented this.

There’s no doubt what caused this. That’s not the question. I’m less concerned about a warranty replacement as I am a response from others that may have had a similar experience and if the damage spread further.

Although one could argue Fords engineering caused the situation that caused the damage. Extra clearance would’ve certainly helped to avoid this issue.

 

[Tomster]

My thought is that the carbon fiber was not damaged. Yes the ceramic coating was affected and I would look into some kind of reconditioning, but certaiy not worthy of wheel replacement. Look up Frank at http://spydercomposites.com/cutting-edge-technology/ and ask him his opinion. I think you are fine.

 

[_M_]

thanks @Tomster

 

[Nfs1000f]

There has been much discussed about this kind of damage. Almost certainly caused by stones getting into the slimmest clearance areas. If somebody was able to get a warranty replacement, great luck for them but this is not what looks like a warranty issue. I do agree 20" wheels are great for these cars and there is a better chance that the extra clearance a 20 would afford might have prevented this.

I took my front wheel off yesterday, the 1st since owning the car. Never having a car with this wide of a wheel, I pulled it off with no regard to the clearance issue. I managed to put significant scratches inside the barrel from contact with the caliper.

 

[Tomster]

thanks @Tomster

What did you find out? I pulled my CF wheels to get new cup 2's installed and found a small blemish in my ceramic similar to yours. CF looked OK though......

 

[Tomster]

Edited to add: the Gentleman I spoke with at the manufacturer has advised me that although his opinion is based upon knowledge of the wheel design, manufature, and it's application..... his opinion is not official and that official guidance has to be obtained by Ford Motor Company.

Follow up...…

I called an unnamed person who works at the manufacturer and spoke to this gentleman at length about this issue. Although he stated that his opinion is not official to Ford or Carbon Revolutions, your blemish is not of concern. He stated the reason for the ceramic coating is due to Fords stringent specification. He described the specification by ford which got them so hot to bring them to the point of failure. He said that repeated max braking attempts (0-100-0) over and over until brake failure and then letting the wheel sit next to the superheated caliper and rotor would be the only time that degraded ceramic coating would be any kind of issue. Furthermore, if the carbon fiber suffered a gouge, the magnitude of millimeters (plural) thick would be the point of concern. Even then, most likely, it would just result in a very slow air leak over a large amount of time.

@Zitrosounds bought some kind of spray on heat coating that required heat to cure, but Carbon Revolutions says that these blemishes cannot be touched up.

 

[302@12psi]

I'm glad I found this thread. I can explain to my wife it could be much worst. She thought having to off the SC2's during the winter was crazy. I'll have to explain the carbon fiber wheels to her tonight.

 

[Zitrosounds]

VHT makes the ceramic paint and it does require heat to cure. The coating is an additional layer of protection required by Ford. We have an exhaust cowling made of CF that is exposed to hours of turboshaft engine operations with no issues. Not a concern to me other than aesthetics for shows. I rarely attend them cuz its to much damn work to clean a car that is tracked and driven often ; )

 

[50 Deep]

The issue you are describing is honestly just the result of a lack of caliper clearance due to the design of the barrel. It is my suspicion that the carbon material did not allow for some of the diameter changes you can achieve with a forged aluminum wheel. The same issue occurs with the OEM GT350 wheel, and a bunch of other aftermarket options. There is no solution to the issue outside of running a new wheel with a different barrel design. The tricky thing here is that the OEM carbon wheel has enough structural integrity not to deflect and deform under heavy loads and heat. The OEM GT350 wheel is so heavy because its cast composition requires a lot of extra material to make the wheel stiff enough.

You really run into trouble with aftermarket wheels that have poor caliper clearance as well. In many cases the spun forged, rotary forged, cast, and even some forged wheels do not have the stiffness or structural rigidity not to deflect when they see high lateral forces, or heat builds up in them through the brakes. Even forged wheels are susceptible to these problems if the forgings they are cut from do not get compressed at a high enough PSI to sufficiently align the grain structure. Finite element analysis is also key in making sure the wheel has enough material to protect from bending at weaker points in the design.

What I can tell you is that a 20" wheel IS NOT needed if the barrel is designed right. The 20" wheel actually provides some interesting challenges with rubbing at full lock on the front end that requires the right combination of tire, offset and wheel width to manage. For a track car the 19" setup is optimal for providing you the most clearance during elevation and suspension changes. You just need to design the barrel right, and not everyone does.

Our 19" Signature Wheel setups will give you double the caliper clearance than OEM, and that has been measured. If you want a permanent fix, I have the solution.

 

[Next Phase]

My thought is that the carbon fiber was not damaged. Yes the ceramic coating was affected and I would look into some kind of reconditioning, but certaiy not worthy of wheel replacement. Look up Frank at http://spydercomposites.com/cutting-edge-technology/ and ask him his opinion. I think you are fine.

As mentioned, the brake caliper clearance is an issue. (Especially if you have a track that has a gravel paddock...LOL)

Both my CF wheels have similar gouges in the ceramic coating. Nothing to worry about, but I'd check them regularly... even between sessions.

I did have a failure (Look up my other thread about Carbon Fiber wheel failure), it was a slow leak due to what Ford describes as "impact damage", but the leak was on the inside barrell where the ceramic coating and painted surface meet (not a spot that was over the caliper). The funny thing is that the wheels held pressure on track and would only lose pressure when the car sat for 3-4 weeks. Went from ~30 psi down to 16 psi.

I spoke to Mike at Carbon Revolutions and he helped steer me in the right direction with getting my wheel repaired. Frank at Spyder took care of my repair and seems to be holding up well. I put my MP4S tires on the CF wheels, but have tracked with them and holding air. From memory, I think it cost $600 to fix and ship back to me. (I also spent $200 getting it out there through Fed Ex with $4k of insurance).

 

[_M_]

@Tomster @50 Deep @Next Phase

Thank you all for your replies and additional education. Great feedback and info.

There seems to be no air leaking at all. And to 50 Deeps comments, yes the barrel design is the issue. The comments about 20" wheels makes complete sense.

I did ask my dealer about it just to see. Figured it wouldn't hurt. I'll keep everyone posted.

@Tomster I have a small one on the other wheel as well. That actually happened a while back and hasn't increased in size or degraded any further, but its a quarter of the size of this one.

Sponsored