'16 Camaro Reviews are starting to hit the sites.

[DiMaio90]

Using sales a reason to say a certain car is cooler or you would rather have or not have a car because of how common or rare it is kinda lame IMO.

If the fact that there are less of your car on the road makes you like it more good for you. Sounds like a hipster mentality to me. I only like cars that no one else does..

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[JohnZiraldo]

Your entire basis is based on IFs and Maybes. You know nothing, quit acting like you know when you clearly don't. Even your followers have left their captain lol :lol:

So typical of the Camaro fans in this Mustang Forum. Claim all of the truth to yourselves and disparage anyone who dares to raise questions about your precious GM products.

I for one have not left Captain Pill. I wish I had the knowledge to contribute more facts to the discussion, but I am glad that I have the decency and self respect to avoid calling all of you names like you do to the Pill and his other supporters.

One day the 2016 MY will be history and we will know all of the facts about our favorite pony/muscle/performance cars. The same thing happened to these cars in the 60s. I could have stood aside and waited for the 70s so I could look back at the facts, but I most certainly did not. I enjoyed every minute of the battle then and every minute of the battle now.

The Mustang/Camaro/Challenger contest has always been a great hobby for car guys. May it always be so. One thing that I don't remember from the 60s was the disrespect that one side now shows continually to the other.

I hope the Pill continues to raise every question that he thinks is important and continues to dare others to respond with similar technical insight and enthusiasm. If the Camaro/GM trolls cannot deal with honest questions and simply want to disparage the Pill and the Mustang, then so be it. Throw all of the crap that you can to make yourself feel good about what GM is doing to our hobby. That will not dissuade me from believing that Ford is taking a better path.

I on the other hand will quietly listen to the questions that are raised by the Pill and others and build for myself a memory of how Ford, GM, and the Camaro enthusiasts treated Pony Car fans during this Era.

 

[75Brick]

People really hype the rarity thing too much sometimes.

Rarity has drawbacks such as fewer performance parts, fewer available techs that know how to work on your car, and then there is the attention. Yes, you get more attention from the general populace usually, but you also get more attention from police, as well. I get followed any time an officer sees me driving the Bricklin.

Quite honestly, I'm looking at this segment for my next car because they are not rare and will be relatively easy to maintain/drive because of it.

 

[cosmo]

So typical of the Camaro fans in this Mustang Forum. Claim all of the truth to yourselves and disparage anyone who dares to raise questions about your precious GM products.

I for one have not left Captain Pill. I wish I had the knowledge to contribute more facts to the discussion, but I am glad that I have the decency and self respect to avoid calling all of you names like you do to the Pill and his other supporters.

One day the 2016 MY will be history and we will know all of the facts about our favorite pony/muscle/performance cars. The same thing happened to these cars in the 60s. I could have stood aside and waited for the 70s so I could look back at the facts, but I most certainly did not. I enjoyed every minute of the battle then and every minute of the battle now.

The Mustang/Camaro/Challenger contest has always been a great hobby for car guys. May it always be so. One thing that I don't remember from the 60s was the disrespect that one side now shows continually to the other.

I hope the Pill continues to raise every question that he thinks is important and continues to dare others to respond with similar technical insight and enthusiasm. If the Camaro/GM trolls cannot deal with honest questions and simply want to disparage the Pill and the Mustang, then so be it. Throw all of the crap that you can to make yourself feel good about what GM is doing to our hobby. That will not dissuade me from believing that Ford is taking a better path.

I on the other hand will quietly listen to the questions that are raised by the Pill and others and build for myself a memory of how Ford, GM, and the Camaro enthusiasts treated Pony Car fans during this Era.

Honest questions? What about honest results? The cars have been weighed and dyno'd by customers. Why is that being overlooked and ignored? Thepill has insisted the cars wouldn't lose weight, then he insisted they wouldn't perform in magazine tests, then he insisted the weight and power wouldn't be in customer cars, now he insists that the cars will gain significant weight after the initial batch is sent out. He's been consistently wrong. If that's who you want to hang your hat on and say is a warrior for Ford, your captain is awful. I'd rather have a realist who knows that the stock Mustang GT is outgunned by the stock Camaro SS right now, and instead look for clues on the next Mustang instead of trying to find a conspiracy with the Camaro, or how to get a Mustang to outperform the Camaro.

Both sides are "typical"

 

[75Brick]

Honest questions? What about honest results? The cars have been weighed and dyno'd by customers. Why is that being overlooked and ignored? Thepill has insisted the cars wouldn't lose weight, then he insisted they wouldn't perform in magazine tests, then he insisted the weight and power wouldn't be in customer cars, now he insists that the cars will gain significant weight after the initial batch is sent out. He's been consistently wrong. If that's who you want to hang your hat on and say is a warrior for Ford, your captain is awful. I'd rather have a realist who knows that the stock Mustang GT is outgunned by the stock Camaro SS right now, and instead look for clues on the next Mustang instead of trying to find a conspiracy with the Camaro, or how to get a Mustang to outperform the Camaro.

Both sides are "typical"

Honest question, why does the Mustang need to "outperform" the Camaro? Last I checked, performance numbers weren't even remotely close to the top reason most people buy cars.

 

[cosmo]

Honest question, why does the Mustang need to "outperform" the Camaro? Last I checked, performance numbers weren't even remotely close to the top reason most people buy cars.

The Mustang doesn't need to outperform. But the reality is, the Camaro outperforms the Mustang stock. The intent of the thread was to discuss the competition of the Mustang vs Camaro. If you want to compromise performance for comfort and daily driveability, totally understandable to get the Mustang. I just don't like it when people can't accept a truth, and instead try to draw up a conspiracy instead of just admitting the Mustang is outgunned stock.

 

[75Brick]

Here is my take on the Camaro.

It looks to be a decent enough performer, however, it has some key areas that I would not be able to get past in order to purchase it.

First, from what I have seen (I've seen a few in person, but haven't sat in one yet) they did not rectify the "coffin" feel of the interior. This really bothered me when I test drove the 5th gen a few years ago.

Second, the added complexities in the cooling system, simply because it is added complexity. Call me what you will, but I prefer keeping things as simple as possible.

Finally, I am concerned about the subframe connectors. It appears that they are bolted into place. I come from working on 3rd and 4th gen fbodies, and subframe connectors should be welded in. On the crappy roads where I live, this will become a maintenance item. I would have to periodically torque the bolts or the car will lose rigidity and turn into a rattle box as the connectors loosen over time.

The Mustang on the other hand is cheaper up front, has a simple cooling system, and no subframe connectors. If I ever get bit by the performance bug after purchase, it is relatively cheap and easy to upgrade the Mustang, particularly since I work on my own cars.

 

[mustang_guy]

Itll also have direct injection. Thats a problem in its own for those that want more then Na bolt on power. Also its extra costly maintenance for Di cleanings.

 

[BG]

thePill keeps interest in this thread and forum to a degree which is good. However a lot of the stuff he brings up to me is pointless. That's okay, I still like to see what he says. I know that about 10 years ago the Mustang had a weak engine, and up until recently had a solid rear axle. The Mustang is better because of the Camaro. On the other side, the Camaro is better because of the Mustang also obviously, because they didn't even produce the Camaro for a while. People say GM guys blindly stick up for the Camaro, ...but Ford guys do the same for the Mustang. Both irritate me, I personally think that Ford needs to make a better Mustang GT right from the factory. I'm sure people think it is perfect though and could never lose to a Camaro in any way.

 

[cosmo]

Itll also have direct injection. Thats a problem in its own for those that want more then Na bolt on power. Also its extra costly maintenance for Di cleanings.

http://www.focusst.org/forum/focus-...l-catch-can-vs-no-oil-catch-can-pictures.html

Good catch cans help quite a bit. I agree though, DI is harder to work with. Shame it isn't a port fuel/DI combo.

 

[DiMaio90]

The Mustang doesn't need to outperform. But the reality is, the Camaro outperforms the Mustang stock. The intent of the thread was to discuss the competition of the Mustang vs Camaro. If you want to compromise performance for comfort and daily driveability, totally understandable to get the Mustang. I just don't like it when people can't accept a truth, and instead try to draw up a conspiracy instead of just admitting the Mustang is outgunned stock.

It looks like the Camaro SS will outperform straight line in stock form. It has a slight weight advantage. Base for base it outperforms in terms of performance and luxury, however this comes at a cost. Mustang base is significantly cheaper. Who has the track performance advantage is an unknown, but I do think the GTPP's huge fronts should be better suited for repeated track use. Props to Ford for having a track pack model year one and a lower price V8 base. Props to GM for output and weight advantage.

I must say that the only time "getting outgunned" really matters is if you're racing at the strip or at the track. If you're doing either regularly, you should be modded simply for reliability purposes. I'm not arguing that the mustang or Camaro is a better mod platform. I think arguing mod for mod is stupid because there are so many options, and why argue it, just go race. Who really races the cars bone stock. The most likely place for that to happen is on the street which is just stupid.

 

[minjitta]

From what have read camaro fans, just wanted mustang fans except that camaro perform batter than mustang stock for stock. Personally I dont care what magazines test results were. Performance i would pick the car in order, look, DD, interior look, mods avaliability and cost. Who the hell race with stock car except for little while waiting for your mods.

We all know ford going to response, ford already know ahead of time what their refresh going to be for mid refresh so does chevy.

Its not hard for ford to lose few lbs that they left on the drawing board.The front suspension of s550 still have alot of heavy steels that can lose some weight. Engine as other stated DI bigger intake etc.. So if you're camaro fans you needed to trade your 5g and get the 6g camaro to keep future gent camaro alive.

As for Mustang its been healthy since its was created, mustang will be here for long long time. Not many car have history like the mustang.

 

[mustang_guy]

http://www.focusst.org/forum/focus-...l-catch-can-vs-no-oil-catch-can-pictures.html

Good catch cans help quite a bit. I agree though, DI is harder to work with. Shame it isn't a port fuel/DI combo.

Of course aos or catchcans help. But not enough. The cylinders with a meth injection to keep them clean or seafoam every 3k. Still wont stop it. The high costs of aftermarket hpfps and they're lack of ability to keep up for high hp builds. Itll suck for someone that wants more then basic bolt ons.

 

[DiMaio90]

This is the first time I've seen this argument. That Stang is better because it's simpler. No pesky aluminum frame braces nor differential oil coolers that make it go faster around a track. I can do all that myself! Do you miss the solid rear axle? Your dream car might be a Model T. Simple as a teapot and you can upgrade the Hell out of it. You don't even need that new-fangled multi-viscocity oil! Just get some plain old 30W that you use in your lawnmower. Go Mustang!

Never have I seen such a bunch of butt-hurt fanboys having to defend themselves from a better competitor during the first year of production. I've had many Fords, never a GM. Until now.

Why you guys have to insult Danica Patrick delivering the first SS? It's cool as Hell. Calling her a shitty driver delivering a shitty car? She could take that car to Willow Springs and embarrass every last one of you here on this board in your beloved mustang. What would that make you? A shittier driver in a shittier car? Grow up. Have a beer. Get laid. Enjoy your car. Stop hating. Embrace the competition.

Seriously 75Brick didn't trash the Camaro. He just listed some things he doesn't like about it. Visibility, cooling system and subframe connectors. Didn't trash the looks. Nothing about him was butt-hurt.

 

[75Brick]

Seriously 75Brick didn't trash the Camaro. He just listed some things he doesn't like about it. Visibility, cooling system and subframe connectors. Didn't trash the looks. Nothing about him was butt-hurt.

Thank you. Merely giving my reasons for liking the Mustang better despite the slight stock performance gap.

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