October 2016 Mustang Sales

[newkidnik]

Based on real world results from the SCCA, an EBPP is all that's required to handle an SS.

That's a little silly. Come on now. Could it happen in some scenario, sure, but applying that outcome as expected to every scenario is a bit much. I'm sure you've read this excerpt from Lightning Lap 2016 about the V6 Camaro:

In doing so, it leaves in its wake a parade of more powerful and more expensive cars, and it absolutely stomps its current Blue Oval rival, the Mustang EcoBoost equipped with the Performance package. Were they on the track at the same time, the boosted Mustang would only be exiting Hog Pen onto the front straight as the Camaro crossed the start/finish line at 3:04. The Ford needs an additional 11.6 seconds to complete its lap. And it gets worse for Mustang acolytes: Despite a 100-hp deficit, the 1LE laps VIR faster than the eight-cylinder Mustang GT.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/chevrolet-camaro-1le-at-lightning-lap-2016-feature

To me, that's telling, and it's frustrating that a performance pack V6 Camaro can trounce our cars. Ford needs to do something.

Damn! Does it really take that much to compete with the SS? I would think, E85 Tune, headers and exhaust can outgun a stock SS on a straight line, tranny per tranny. Plus, Mustangs aftermarket is huuuuuge compared to Chevys.

Depends if you ask a Mustang forum or a Camaro forum, I suppose. If by exhaust you mean headers, I agree.

No, it doesn't take that much to compete with a Camaro, he's exaggerating. Ask anyone here who actually has a modifed Mustang GT and actually races Camaros at the track or the strip. It doesn't require extensive modifications, but it does require a few of the basic ones that most people get anyway.

Don't make assumptions. I'm no stranger to modding, the drag strip, or either nameplate. The fact is, an MT82 Mustang needs headers and a strong E85 tune at at least compete with the new SS. Do I see cars with those mods running 115-116 at my track, no, not really, but it'll put in the mix.

One doesn't need to spend money on the MT82, but with enough track time it is more likely blow. Out of my group, 4/7 blew non-reinforced MT82s, some multiple times. Again, all from real world experience. The mag times are just supporting evidence.

I trapped 115+ on a tune, intake, drag radial car. I don't know what skill level the guy above is watching. But apparently he hasn't been watching decent drivers. On the handling side of things. I haven't read any magazine comparos between the ford racing track package and stock Camaros. I'm not really a road race guy. So I'll let people with more experience comment on the handling side of things.

See above for the C&D article for some perspective on handling from sources better than either of us.

In terms of the track, aren't you an auto car? I'm always surprised when auto drivers put manual 5.0s in the same bracket. The transmission makes a noticeable difference on these cars.

Sponsored

 

[AmericanLegend]

.....To be completely honest, unless sales in the US took a break, they wouldn't be able to catch up on Overseas back orders.

While US sales are 5000-6000 in the US, they probably went from 3000-4000 overseas to 5000-7000 a month. If US sales stay at 5000-6000, Ford won't have any issues filling the backorders in EU, AU, India and China. We can physically see Ford isn't pushing many 2017's on the US market...

Everything I've read states that the Mustang is back ordered for many months overseas. Which is why I don't understand why Flat Rock shutdown for a week in October due to slow sales. Maybe there is a limit on right hand drive components that are available per month...therefore putting a "bottleneck" on production capacity for right hand drive mustangs per month.

It will be interesting if Ford starts putting more cash on the hood of the '17's to push more product.

Bloomberg:
"The second-largest U.S. automaker idled the factory (for one week) in Flat Rock, south of Detroit, to match production capacity with demand, Kelli Felker, a company spokeswoman, said in an e-mailed statement."

 

[Big Boss]

It's just over 2 years old. First cars in customer's hands in Oct of '14.

The overall auto market is in a bit of a slump, and as others have said, the market is pretty saturated. The demand will come up for the '18MY again and tail off as S650 gets close. That will all happen as the demand for sports coupes/sports cars slowly declines.

This ^ I think we all knew the Mustang would have sustained the numbers it did forever. Hell I am actually surprised it had the numbers it did for as long as it did.

 

[Dudie7]

This is as expected. Huge discounts on the competition + some level of market saturation + pending refresh = fewer year-end sales. I, for one, am itching to see what happens with this refresh.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Before the politically correct web masters delete my comment, I'm glad the S550 sales are tanking.

And before anyone wants to bash me - I'm a true Ford Enthsiast to the core - having owned many Fords and having now owned (19) Mustangs alone to date (including the 2 in my sig), so I'm in no way brand bashing Ford.

What I am saying is this, it's very prevalent on this site, let alone MANY other forums and online websites that the S550 Quality Control is absolutely horrible as well as the overall experience S550 Customers are receiving from their Ford Service Centers. Now before you all go "it's only a small portion", the facts are documented everywhere AND Social Media is picking up on the experiences from actual Buyers/Owners.

There are many folks who have Lemon'd a S550 as well as many who have just traded the vehicle in for a "Brand-X" due to the QC issues and/or frustrations of trying to deal with the issues at their Ford Service Centers, where honestly, warranty work or not, the Customer is looked down upon and/or has to make MULTIPLE visits to get a single item rectified.

Not only that, but then you have Customers bringing their brand new S550 back in for a diagnosis OR an actual repair, who are then returned a car that has been damaged by a Tech for lack of respect or concern of the Customers vehicle. So now add the frustration of the Customer who not only paid for a brand new vehicle that has to be serviced due to piss poor manufacturing quality and/or piss poor vendor supplied parts AND having their vehicle damaged and that a customer WILL be extremely disatisified with the overall buying and ownership experience.

There is NO reason at all why the S550 at 3 model years in still has the SAME QC issues as those from the initial model year release.

What QC issues you ask? Well, if you don't travel beyond this subforum into others, they have all been very well documented on this site, let alone many others. Here's just a few:

Stock unmodified premature engine or engine part failures (EB, GT and Shelbys)
Vehicle fires (relating to improperly routed or ill manufactured fuel or oil lines)
Driveline vibrations
MT82 trans issues
Fuel pump failures
Interior rattles
Exterior body QC issues (paint and panel fitment)
Inoperable or poor functioning upper seat back cooling/heating
Convertible top issues
Rear 1/4 window gasket and black upper rubber door trim part issues
Rear back up camera failures
Water penetration into trunk or front cabin floor boards
A/C failures (EVAP core and compressor)
Engine sensor failures (various)

The above is all FACTS and occurrences on brand new S550's, not vehicles that have 50k+ mikes on them.

It's one thing to cookie cut a mass produced vehicle and sell millions, it's another when Social Media is available to potential future Customers who can research vehicles and make informed decisions on overall Customer Ownership experiences, not just solely for the QC issues noted above, BUT for the OVERALL experience including Ford Service Centers.

Blast me if you will, but honestly, the S550 in model year 2017 should not still be affected by previous MY QC carry over issues.

 

[Rebellion]

Before the politically correct web masters delete my comment, I'm glad the S550 sales are tanking.

And before anyone wants to bash me - I'm a true Ford Enthsiast to the core - having owned many Fords and having now owned (19) Mustangs alone to date (including the 2 in my sig), so I'm in no way brand bashing Ford.

What I am saying is this, it's very prevalent on this site, let alone MANY other forums and online websites that the S550 Quality Control is absolutely horrible as well as the overall experience S550 Customers are receiving from their Ford Service Centers. Now before you all go "it's only a small portion", the facts are documented everywhere AND Social Media is picking up on the experiences from actual Buyers/Owners.

There are many folks who have Lemon'd a S550 as well as many who have just traded the vehicle in for a "Brand-X" due to the QC issues and/or frustrations of trying to deal with the issues at their Ford Service Centers, where honestly, warranty work or not, the Customer is looked down upon and/or has to make MULTIPLE visits to get a single item rectified.

Not only that, but then you have Customers bringing their brand new S550 back in for a diagnosis OR an actual repair, who are then returned a car that has been damaged by a Tech for lack of respect or concern of the Customers vehicle. So now add the frustration of the Customer who not only paid for a brand new vehicle that has to be serviced due to piss poor manufacturing quality and/or piss poor vendor supplied parts AND having their vehicle damaged and that a customer WILL be extremely disatisified with the overall buying and ownership experience.

There is NO reason at all why the S550 at 3 model years in still has the SAME QC issues as those from the initial model year release.

What QC issues you ask? Well, if you don't travel beyond this subforum into others, they have all been very well documented on this site, let alone many others. Here's just a few:

Stock unmodified premature engine or engine part failures (EB, GT and Shelbys)
Vehicle fires (relating to improperly routed or ill manufactured fuel or oil lines)
Driveline vibrations
MT82 trans issues
Fuel pump failures
Interior rattles
Exterior body QC issues (paint and panel fitment)
Inoperable or poor functioning upper seat back cooling/heating
Convertible top issues
Rear 1/4 window gasket and black upper rubber door trim part issues
Rear back up camera failures
Water penetration into trunk or front cabin floor boards
A/C failures (EVAP core and compressor)
Engine sensor failures (various)

The above is all FACTS and occurrences on brand new S550's, not vehicles that have 50k+ mikes on them.

It's one thing to cookie cut a mass produced vehicle and sell millions, it's another when Social Media is available to potential future Customers who can research vehicles and make informed decisions on overall Customer Ownership experiences, not just solely for the QC issues noted above, BUT for the OVERALL experience including Ford Service Centers.

Blast me if you will, but honestly, the S550 in model year 2017 should not still be affected by previous MY QC carry over issues.

On the matter of QC and service, is Dodge and Chevy doing any better?

Knock on wood, I haven't had the need to go service anything...

 

[BmacIL]

Before the politically correct web masters delete my comment, I'm glad the S550 sales are tanking.

And before anyone wants to bash me - I'm a true Ford Enthsiast to the core - having owned many Fords and having now owned (19) Mustangs alone to date (including the 2 in my sig), so I'm in no way brand bashing Ford.

What I am saying is this, it's very prevalent on this site, let alone MANY other forums and online websites that the S550 Quality Control is absolutely horrible as well as the overall experience S550 Customers are receiving from their Ford Service Centers. Now before you all go "it's only a small portion", the facts are documented everywhere AND Social Media is picking up on the experiences from actual Buyers/Owners.

There are many folks who have Lemon'd a S550 as well as many who have just traded the vehicle in for a "Brand-X" due to the QC issues and/or frustrations of trying to deal with the issues at their Ford Service Centers, where honestly, warranty work or not, the Customer is looked down upon and/or has to make MULTIPLE visits to get a single item rectified.

Not only that, but then you have Customers bringing their brand new S550 back in for a diagnosis OR an actual repair, who are then returned a car that has been damaged by a Tech for lack of respect or concern of the Customers vehicle. So now add the frustration of the Customer who not only paid for a brand new vehicle that has to be serviced due to piss poor manufacturing quality and/or piss poor vendor supplied parts AND having their vehicle damaged and that a customer WILL be extremely disatisified with the overall buying and ownership experience.

There is NO reason at all why the S550 at 3 model years in still has the SAME QC issues as those from the initial model year release.

What QC issues you ask? Well, if you don't travel beyond this subforum into others, they have all been very well documented on this site, let alone many others. Here's just a few:

Stock unmodified premature engine or engine part failures (EB, GT and Shelbys)
Vehicle fires (relating to improperly routed or ill manufactured fuel or oil lines)
Driveline vibrations
MT82 trans issues
Fuel pump failures
Interior rattles
Exterior body QC issues (paint and panel fitment)
Inoperable or poor functioning upper seat back cooling/heating
Convertible top issues
Rear 1/4 window gasket and black upper rubber door trim part issues
Rear back up camera failures
Water penetration into trunk or front cabin floor boards
A/C failures (EVAP core and compressor)
Engine sensor failures (various)

The above is all FACTS and occurrences on brand new S550's, not vehicles that have 50k+ mikes on them.

It's one thing to cookie cut a mass produced vehicle and sell millions, it's another when Social Media is available to potential future Customers who can research vehicles and make informed decisions on overall Customer Ownership experiences, not just solely for the QC issues noted above, BUT for the OVERALL experience including Ford Service Centers.

Blast me if you will, but honestly, the S550 in model year 2017 should not still be affected by previous MY QC carry over issues.

I have nearly 37k miles on my car and the only issues I have are very, very minor driver's side fender to bumper alignment and a small rattle in the A-pillar/headliner that comes and goes depending on temperature/roads, but is never constant. It's been perfect otherwise.

Not saying that there aren't issues, as one of my good friends had to take apart his dash to fix rattles, and had to have his entire driver's side cylinder head replaced due to a chirping noise (turned out to be a bad camshaft). I'd like to see the warranty data across the board, as there's a huge percentage of Mustang owners that don't even know this message board exists, let alone post about their cars. From my internal contacts at Ford, the Driveline Vibration is a legit and widespread issue that's impacting Ford's bottom line, and the engineering & manufacturing teams are being beat on to fix.

 

[Cobra Jet]

I have nearly 37k miles on my car and the only issues I have are very, very minor driver's side fender to bumper alignment and a small rattle in the A-pillar/headliner that comes and goes depending on temperature/roads, but is never constant. It's been perfect otherwise.

Not saying that there aren't issues, as one of my good friends had to take apart his dash to fix rattles, and had to have his entire driver's side cylinder head replaced due to a chirping noise (turned out to be a bad camshaft). I'd like to see the warranty data across the board, as there's a huge percentage of Mustang owners that don't even know this message board exists, let alone post about their cars. From my internal contacts at Ford, the Driveline Vibration is a legit and widespread issue that's impacting Ford's bottom line, and the engineering & manufacturing teams are being beat on to fix.

Glad it's "recognized" internally at Ford - and honestly, I'd like to have William Ford's phone number to discuss the concern personally in a 100% professional manner - as I have had to deal with this issue on a reoccurring basis - and that's no joke. I've been dealing with the "CSR", have had multiple "packages" attached to my VIN due to the inconveniences and then trying to do the right thing for the issues. Heck, I even wrote a lengthy email to William Ford, the CEO and another top ranking Corporate Rep - not one reply back, which honestly is ignorance. I know the "big wigs" don't answer everything personally, but you would have thought some lower Ford Admin Rep would have replied.

I don't care what is being offered to a Customer to quell the Customer so they can be made to feel better about their $30k-$75k+ purchase of a new vehicle - that is NOT the point. The point is, a Ford Customer who purchases a brand new vehicle regardless of the price point shouldn't have had to deal with the same QC issues over and over and over OR deal with them into a brand new 3rd Model Year vehicle, period.

Please do post your statement about that into the driveline vibe thread on the TSB section, others would welcome the reply.

I'd also like to hear more about exactly what they are doing or trying to do - because sincerely, they're still selling defective MY 2017 units and the collective Customer base is having to deal with not 1 visit, but a miriad of visits, random parts replacements and poor handling of the issue at any given FSC in the US.

So if you do have a internal Rep - please do feel free to forward my sentiments and I'm open to ANY discussion from him/her. I will be going back yet again for the driveline issue - and that's after the issue has been "fixed" at various mileage intervals via multiple parts replacements - which has wasted LOTS of my time - on what is supposed to be a good buying experience of a new vehicle.

 

[BmacIL]

Glad it's "recognized" internally at Ford - and honestly, I'd like to have William Ford's phone number to discuss the concern personally in a 100% professional manner - as I have had to deal with this issue on a reoccurring basis - and that's no joke. I've been dealing with the "CSR", have had multiple "packages" attached to my VIN due to the issue and even wrote a lengthy email to William Ford, their CEO and another top ranking Corporate Rep - not one reply back, which honestly is ignorance. I know the "big wigs" don't answer everything personally, but you would have thought some lower Ford Admin Rep would have replied.

Please do post your statement about that into the driveline vibe thread on the TSB section, others would welcome the reply.

I'd also like to hear more about exactly what they are doing or trying to do - because sincerely, they're still selling defective MY 2017 units and the collective Customer base is having to deal with not 1 visit, but a miriad of visits, random parts replacements and poor handling of the issue at any given FSC in the US.

So if you do have a internal Rep - please do feel free to forward my sentiments and I'm open to ANY discussion from him/her. I will be going back yet again for the driveline issue - and that's after the issue has been "fixed" at various mileage intervals via multiple parts replacements - which has wasted LOTS of my time - on what is supposed to be a good buying experience of a new vehicle.

It's a multi-variable problem, with the following parts being suspect causes, either by themselves or contributing together:

-Driveshaft imbalance: supplier quality problem
-Driveshaft imbalance: manufacturing assembly error (lining up the alignment dots)
-Subframe alignment: big subframe holes cause static driveline angles that are problematic at speed...engineering has been fighting with manufacturing to work on processes to consistently align it, with little success. I have literally sent them the link to Steeda's subframe alignment inserts after speaking with them about the aftermarket solutions to the subframe alignment/movement. I believe they are working on a solution to improve tolerances/smaller variability for '18MY. None of it is easy. If it were it would've never launched like that, nor taken any signficant amount of time to fix.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Its prety hard to get upset over a few average months. when the 16s have sold over 90000 cars.

 

[WhiteyDog]

Its prety hard to get upset over a few average months. when the 16s have sold over 90000 cars.

Ha, good point.

 

[Macfarland]

Its prety hard to get upset over a few average months. when the 16s have sold over 90000 cars.

I'm not upset. I'm intrigued as what caused the big downward spiral so suddenly especially this past month.

 

[SpeedLu]

I'm not upset. I'm intrigued as what caused the big downward spiral so suddenly especially this past month.

Announcement of the changes expected to come on the 18's, Mustang market saturation, and heavily discounted Camaros.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Announcement of the changes expected to come on the 18's, Mustang market saturation, and heavily discounted Camaros.

Along with an election that in 5 day will elect the most unpopular president in history. Take your pick. Both candidates are NOT LIKED! And predictions of a recession are scaring people. There is a lot of things in play right now. To explain the downturn in all performance car sales.

 

[Five Oh Brian]

The '18 refresh won't have any sheetmetal changes outside of possibly GT350-style fenders. Body sides, roof, rear quarter will all be the same. The only exterior changes will be minor to hood, front & rear fascias/lights. It's not likely you'll like the '18 much more than the '15-17.

You are absolutely correct. However, there is always the possibility of something akin to a Mach 1 or Bullitt on the horizon that might sway me.

Sponsored