Whipple & Broken Cranks

[80FoxCoupe]

My apologies, I wasn't aware that you were privileged to internal Ford engineering information. In the past Ford has made changes in parts that logically appear to be for one reason, but in actuality are for a completely different reason. You seem to have a source for the facts that the rest of us don't. Carry on.

Apology accepted. Carry on.

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[Andy13186]

KR3Z part number?

I think so. I found this thread from a few years ago https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/ford-forged-crank-sprocket-timing-gear.114036/

 

[SheepDog]

Can confirm, my 2022 has the elastomer damper.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

I think so. I found this thread from a few years ago https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/ford-forged-crank-sprocket-timing-gear.114036/

In that thread, someone states a different PN than the Predator CS but no pics. The FP unit has the Predator pn on it. Not sure what the difference is between the 18up and FP/Predator. Both have their shortcomings addressed in aftermarket CS's.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Can confirm, my 2022 has the elastomer damper.

Would have been nice if they kept the viscous unit.

 

[SheepDog]

Would have been nice if they kept the viscous unit.

Agreed. Anyone have the part number for the Ford Fluid damper?

 

[SheepDog]

Found it, looks like it is still available.

https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/ford-pulley-crankshaft-nr3z6312a

 

[JetGray_Mach1]

So the Elastomer is trash?

 

[Angrey]

It's a classic spurious logic flaw to tie "aftermarket" dampeners to the issue when the vast majority of aftermarket dampeners are on boosted/blown setups. So is it the ATI/IW dampener that's causing the issue or the torque applied more forward of the front cover, additional torque, additional RPM (redline), or a combination of all, etc, etc.

The OE bolt design is curious and probably works within OE power levels/harmonics, but it begs the question (other than weight) of why they'd have a big channel within the crank for the bolt to flex/wander.

It "SEEMS" like the Kinetic bolt would help reduce potential flex by filling in this space/void and not allowing as much deformation under harsh shock loads.

It also remains to be seen whether a natural aspirated motor that's making what power adder motors make would have the same detrimental effects on the crank.

 

[Cobra Jet]

To my knowledge its the same OPG/CS. What was changed was the dampener. APPARENTLY...the failures, someone determined, were due to harmonic vibrations at high RPMs. Ford went to a viscous fluid dampener on the gen 3 coyotes and this problem is supposedly "fixed". I couldn't find anything online about an 18+ failure so I started asking around. Only person to say he's seen them was Wengerd and he said they were pushing the 800-900hp range and they didn't explode, just cracked, so I'm assuming it didn't cause a catastrophic engine failure. So it seems pretty rare now.

Interesting.

Does anyone have a visual of the dampeners side by side to see the differences - or at least have the knowledge to know what dampener they have before hand?

Any Ford part number references.?

 

[SheepDog]

Interesting.

Does anyone have a visual of the dampeners side by side to see the differences - or at least have the knowledge to know what dampener they have before hand?

Any Ford part number references.?

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/2018-oem-harmonic-balancer.141917/page-3

Post #43

 

[Cobra Jet]

Can confirm, my 2022 has the elastomer damper.

Unless it's just the way the pic looks, it appears the elastomeric center on the lower left appears to be bulging out (IF that is in fact the rubber, hard to tell from your image). If it is bulging (front or back side of the dampener), eventually that will end up in a failure.

A ways back, the 2002+ Ford Explorers with the V6 in them, had many issues with the factory harmonic balancer elastomeric material failing. I had a tech thread over on the Explorer forum that was a good reference for others. Initial failure starts with what sounds like belt squealing, then if let go without repairing, eventually the outer ring of the balancer will spin or separate from the inner and if continued to let go without fixing, it can snap the crank snout...

So anyone with a harmonic balancer that has the elastomeric center should always check to make sure it's not deteriorating over time AND that it's not bulging out on the front or back side. Another key diagnosis is - when engine is at idle, shine a light down at it, if there is ANY wobble at all, replace it. It should never have a wobble.

 

[SheepDog]

The OE bolt design is curious and probably works within OE power levels/harmonics, but it begs the question (other than weight) of why they'd have a big channel within the crank for the bolt to flex/wander

Truth, this is why Im going with the Apex Torque Stud kit as well as the Boundary sprocket that has the grip surface on it. This combo should keep this sumbitch in place.

https://www.beefcakeracing.com/boundary-combo-grip-15-hbb/

 

[SheepDog]

Unless it's just the way the pic looks, it appears the elastomeric center on the lower left appears to be bulging out (IF that is in fact the rubber, hard to tell from your image). If it is bulging (front or back side of the dampener), eventually that will end up in a failure.

A ways back, the 2002+ Ford Explorers with the V6 in them, had many issues with the factory harmonic balancer elastomeric material failing. I had a tech thread over on the Explorer forum that was a good reference for others. Initial failure starts with what sounds like belt squealing, then if let go without repairing, eventually the outer ring of the balancer will spin or separate from the inner and if continued to let go without fixing, it can snap the crank snout...

So anyone with a harmonic balancer that has the elastomeric center should always check to make sure it's not deteriorating over time AND that it's not bulging out on the front or back side. Another key diagnosis is - when engine is at idle, shine a light down at it, if there is ANY wobble at all, replace it. It should never have a wobble.

Good call, I'll check that when I get home. For 122 bucks, I may just swap over to the Ford Fluid damper when I do the OPG/CS

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Truth, this is why Im going with the Apex Torque Stud kit as well as the Boundary sprocket that has the grip surface on it. This combo should keep this sumbitch in place.

https://www.beefcakeracing.com/boundary-combo-grip-15-hbb/

The Kinetic studs shank diameter closely matches the snout counterbore, which minimizes stretch, improves applied torque accuracy and can potentially be set to a higher torque value. The Apex piece is superior to a bolt though.

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