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Unresolved bucking issue

shogun32

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Both exhaust pipes produce the same amount of condensation at the same times
The banks are not independent. This observation is irrelevant.

@engineermike or @K4fxd might be able to lend a hand. But first validate that flash. So you have a knowable baseline.

And update your profile so we know where you live.
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SheepDog

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It's pretty clear to me but I forget others have different brains and thought processes.

I bought the car with 36k, coyote tick bad bad. I isolated it to the imrc system and confirmed by temporarily locking them out. When I first changed the oil it was burnt and thinner than anything I've seen before. Got a great bath. Cylinder head temps on casual driving always stayed above 215° but spirited driving went alot higher. Saw heat soak at 245° one time. This is irrelevant in my opinion because there's a brand new 2023 coyote installed from Ford due to engine failure. They never determined the issues but it was apparently the worst failure they've ever seen from a coyote. New engine in first drive threw a p03000 again. Dealer did catalytic converter as part of a tsb that was for my car. It doesn't meet the criteria for the rest of the tsb (no cel with dedicated bank misfire failure) so there's no point in taking it back to them. When the car starts hesitating or bucking there is an extreme exhaust tone difference like it's broken up. The throttle squeal is most noticeable at 2500-4000 rpm when I drive against walls and fences it echoes back. I can hear from the drivers seat its coming from the front of the car. Hence the video of the throttle body. The test performed was with the car in KEOE (KEY ON ENGINE OFF) criteria for throttle dead spot test and listening to this feedback noise.
I hooked up vcm scanner and logged some casual driving with small pulls not hitting full throttle in case it runs lean. I was referring to the data in the screenshot provided from vcm scanner. The throttle sits at 2°-3° at idle and I took a picture of where there's a significant deviation of timing being pulled for some reason. All throughout the drive test fuel pump commanded dc stayed around 20%. When taking the video of the throttle body I tried pressing the pedal in a linear fashion to determine if there's input issues, deadspots in the throttle, or hesitation. Considering the throttle only operates on one plane it'd be very easy to see these variations. If you need help understanding anything else please let me know....
I think your problem is electrical. Bad ground, bad PCM, bad wiring. I'd start looking at chassis grounds for corrosion, indications of poor grounding.
 

SheepDog

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LTFT AND STFT were suspect to me in bank 2
STFT's should always fluctuate, and target 0. seeing a slight - and slight + number back and forth is exactly what it should do.
 

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What makes you point to the cat? If that were the case then the fuel trims would be ALOT worse and I would notice less moisture from one side of the exhaust upon cold start. Both exhaust pipes produce the same amount of condensation at the same times which leads me to believe it is not a plugged cat. I am open to observations but please elaborate with reasoning.
I don't think you're going to notice a difference at the tail-pipes if one cat is plugged. I think the exhaust system balances things out by the time the gasses & moisture get to the end.

I'm thinking cats because I've read about your same symptoms, and it's been a cat/the cats.

Plus....you wrote one had to be replaced, so it stands to reason the other wasn't far behind in the failure curve.
 

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What makes you point to the cat? If that were the case then the fuel trims would be ALOT worse
Cats don't effect fuel trims, Fuel trim effect cats. If you are running rich or lean is what will cause a Cat to fail. If you were having a leak post MAF (vacuum leak), or were having fueling issues, your fuel trims would not be as close to 0 as they are.

Check fuel pressure
Check wiring for poor grounds
Check fuses
Check your connectors at the PCM, Throttle body, injectors, MAF sensor or any others you can get to for bent or pushed out pins. Unplug them and look inside the connector
Gently press on the throttle blade and make sure that theer is no play in it. The teeth that engage the actuator are plastic, and can chip or break a tooth which can cause driveability issues like throttle surge, eratic behavior.
 

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Lunas Destiny

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I don't think you're going to notice a difference at the tail-pipes if one cat is plugged. I think the exhaust system balances things out by the time the gasses & moisture get to the end.

I'm thinking cats because I've read about your same symptoms, and it's been a cat/the cats.

Plus....you wrote one had to be replaced, so it stands to reason the other wasn't far behind in the failure curve.
That make sense, I assumed that the exhaust could be an indicator of health but there are a lot of checks in these cars. They said they didn't replace the passenger side because it wasn't throwing a code and that's why I've been hesitant to even take it with an intermittent issue.

I did purchase a passenger upstream but its a pain to get to so its been a nice tabletop decoration.

Cats don't effect fuel trims, Fuel trim effect cats. If you are running rich or lean is what will cause a Cat to fail. If you were having a leak post MAF (vacuum leak), or were having fueling issues, your fuel trims would not be as close to 0 as they are.

Check fuel pressure
Check wiring for poor grounds
Check fuses
Check your connectors at the PCM, Throttle body, injectors, MAF sensor or any others you can get to for bent or pushed out pins. Unplug them and look inside the connector
Gently press on the throttle blade and make sure that theer is no play in it. The teeth that engage the actuator are plastic, and can chip or break a tooth which can cause driveability issues like throttle surge, eratic behavior.
I just installed a new OEM throttle body and already notice a slight difference. The squeal is more of a gentle high chorus vs glass breaking screech. Shifts have already adjusted but there is still some breakup in the tone of the exhaust. I'll checkout the connections at the top end of the motor and see if there's anything that stands out.

At idle ltft bank 1 stays at 1.6% never fluctuating. Ltft bank 2 stays pegged at .8. There was a weird idle fluctuation. Following that the fuel trims all shot negative except the 2 pegged ltfts the values stayed between -3.9% and -6.3% on both stft's for a total of 1 minute until they slowly went back to normal. No other areas of the log have something quite like this and it was just at idle with no inputs from biological beings. Note the white bar graph pulling timing at the time it happened.
20231006_132946.jpg
 

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Was it previously supercharged ?
 

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At idle ltft bank 1 stays at 1.6% never fluctuating. Ltft bank 2 stays pegged at .8
LTFT's should stay consistent, and be as close to 0 as possible. STFT's should fluctuate back and forth, but also as close to 0 as possible.

Negative STFT's would indicate a rich condition, perhaps a sticky fuel injector, but if it's on both banks, I'd still be leaning towards a wiring issue like a bad ground, or loose connector, bent pin etc. Bad PCM could also do this
 
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Lunas Destiny

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Was it previously supercharged ?
Doubt it, just not taken care of previously. I change my oils at half the regular intervals just to take care of her.
LTFT's should stay consistent, and be as close to 0 as possible. STFT's should fluctuate back and forth, but also as close to 0 as possible.

Negative STFT's would indicate a rich condition, perhaps a sticky fuel injector, but if it's on both banks, I'd still be leaning towards a wiring issue like a bad ground, or loose connector, bent pin etc. Bad PCM could also do this
One thing I've been trying to figure out is it sounds like air trapped in the fuel rail. I know that's unlikely but it makes noise near or in the fuel line after the hp fuel pump. This is new and just started happening last week immediately after the last bucking. That noise has remained constant. It echoes through the ccv line and putting my ear on the fuel rail I can feel it in the area between the 1st and 2nd injector on passenger side.
 

SheepDog

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makes noise near or in the fuel line after the hp fuel pump
Disconnect the fuel line and see if the Oring is pinched or rolled.

Also, get yourself an Automotive stethoscope to pinpoint noises
 

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Lunas Destiny

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Disconnect the fuel line and see if the Oring is pinched or rolled.

Also, get yourself an Automotive stethoscope to pinpoint noises
I got earballs for that my good sir. That sounds like a good call for this issue. I will report back after checking.
 

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I got earballs for that my good sir
You'd be surprised how noises and vibrations can echo through stuff, and mislead a diagnosis. There like 10 bucks at Harbor Freight
 
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Lunas Destiny

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Doubt it, just not taken care of previously. I change my oils at half the regular intervals just to take care of her.

One thing I've been trying to figure out is it sounds like air trapped in the fuel rail. I know that's unlikely but it makes noise near or in the fuel line after the hp fuel pump. This is new and just started happening last week immediately after the last bucking. That noise has remained constant. It echoes through the ccv line and putting my ear on the fuel rail I can feel it in the area between the 1st and 2nd injector on passenger side.
Well ive made some very surprising discoveries... after pulling out the drivers side pump and installing back in I now get ~16 gallon fillup. I watch pretty much all the data you can in the car all the time and all the time since getting the car it's been 8 gallons at 1/4 full. This morning I got 10 and it was a good bit under the 1/4 line. The throttle body cleaned up everything and then some (lurching when putting vehicle in drive) so far. I believe I've put enough miles on her to learn my behavior again so I'm assuming this is the new learned behavior from throttle body replacement. The noise on the passenger side is still there. Turns out however that line seals is integrated in the line so it's 107 at ford. They're on strike or else I would've thrown it on but the more I think about it I think it's either the first or second upper injector clogged up with stuff. I've ran a fuel treatment for upper end cleaning and lubricity with no change. The throttle body has made the biggest improvement so far but I can't sleep knowing that noise is still there. I might just throw a set of upper injectors on the car since it's getting close to 50k miles anyway.
 

Snakebyte

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Well ive made some very surprising discoveries... after pulling out the drivers side pump and installing back in I now get ~16 gallon fillup. I watch pretty much all the data you can in the car all the time and all the time since getting the car it's been 8 gallons at 1/4 full. This morning I got 10 and it was a good bit under the 1/4 line. The throttle body cleaned up everything and then some (lurching when putting vehicle in drive) so far. I believe I've put enough miles on her to learn my behavior again so I'm assuming this is the new learned behavior from throttle body replacement. The noise on the passenger side is still there. Turns out however that line seals is integrated in the line so it's 107 at ford. They're on strike or else I would've thrown it on but the more I think about it I think it's either the first or second upper injector clogged up with stuff. I've ran a fuel treatment for upper end cleaning and lubricity with no change. The throttle body has made the biggest improvement so far but I can't sleep knowing that noise is still there. I might just throw a set of upper injectors on the car since it's getting close to 50k miles anyway.
You obviously are doing a lot of testing and investigation already. You also shared a lot of good information on the forum, so understandably the amount of data is overwhelming to some (like me). But good info nonetheless.
Hopefully with all the good information you provided, between our awesome technical members will help you finally get this resolved.
 
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Lunas Destiny

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Well ive made some very surprising discoveries... after pulling out the drivers side pump and installing back in I now get ~16 gallon fillup. I watch pretty much all the data you can in the car all the time and all the time since getting the car it's been 8 gallons at 1/4 full. This morning I got 10 and it was a good bit under the 1/4 line. The throttle body cleaned up everything and then some (lurching when putting vehicle in drive) so far. I believe I've put enough miles on her to learn my behavior again so I'm assuming this is the new learned behavior from throttle body replacement. The noise on the passenger side is still there. Turns out however that line seals is integrated in the line so it's 107 at ford. They're on strike or else I would've thrown it on but the more I think about it I think it's either the first or second upper injector clogged up with stuff. I've ran a fuel treatment for upper end cleaning and lubricity with no change. The throttle body has made the biggest improvement so far but I can't sleep knowing that noise is still there. I might just throw a set of upper injectors on the car since it's getting close to 50k miles anyway.
I have put about 350 miles on the car since getting the throttle body and wow I thought I had a gt before this thing is brand new! Everything's cleaned up except that rail noise but even the cold starts are the same everytime now. Sometimes it'd hot start weird too but those are gone. I did have a weird time getting the drivers side fuel pump out. The line that runs to the other pump was twisted and I had to finesse it to get the pump out. Installing was 100x easier than install from that issue alone. I'm assuming inside the tank wasn't happy from an accident earlier in the year. Just got the car back about 2 weeks ago so it could've been that or another weird issue. I'm going to keep monitoring everything and hopefully I can relax soon over this stuff 😂

Thanks for taking time out to reply with help guys!
Here's some pics I snagged too.
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20231006_125627.jpg
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