Track Time Limited due to High CHT

[tosha]

I'm ready to take the deep-dive into making my S550 PP2 into a sustainable HPDE 20-25 min car.
Unfortunately installed the Mishimoto oil cooler before I did significant research, so I am going to try and work with that.
I've installed it in the "recommended" mounting place that covers 85 to 90% of the top grill opening. How much will that inhibit the rest of my cooling (after boxing/ducting)?
Everyone keeps telling me "just take it to the track and see what you have". i understand the wisdom of that so you are addressing YOUR issues and not some guy's in the internet.
But, given the amount of "situation specific" work required for "Boxing/ducting" the radiator space between the radiator(s) and fascia, I'd really like to get other issues sorted out before I start the boxing/ducting process.
That being said, @GTP placed his long/rectangular oil cooler horizontal, which seems to be a really great idea. (and his resuts were very good) The Mishi oil cooler looks to be a similar shape and would be able to fit in the same orientation. The Mishi-provided hoses look like they will accommodate this move as the distance to the sandwich plate is likely shorter when the cooler is move lower. (haven't confirmed that yet).
Other 2 options are, leave it where it is or Move it to the lower opening in the vertical orientation.
As you all know, the "safest" solution is ALWAYS the most involved/tedious/difficult/expensive.
To me it seems at a minimum I should move it to the lower (smaller) opening (vertical) leaving the larger upper opening to the stock coolers.
I'm interested in others input as to which route you'd take before boxing/ ducting efforts begin.
As a reference point:
My engine is stock, at best I'll run an e85 tune at some point but that is WAY out in the future. For what its worth, I'm probably a 8/10 to 9/10 driver with 10 years experience running in intermediate and advanced HPDE groups. I've opted out of 11" square set by up purchasing a 10"/11" set of BC forged wheels with Proxy 888R's 285/305. 295/305 F1's and 305 square on my stock PP2 wheels are likely next round of tires. I hope this gives a good picture of what I am trying to accomplish. Perhaps none of these details make any difference in where I place my oil cooler.
I'm trying to hit a home run in my first at bat! I know that's not likely but there is so much real-world experience out there I' hope to get close!
Thanks to everyone for all the great input on this issue!

Just out of curiosity, what lap times do you do at WGI? Just want to get an idea on how much you'll be pushing the car.

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[Bossdog]

I don't know, I had a 2005 STi and a 2001 Z06 to WGI, don't have lap times for either. I haven't had this S550 PP2 on any track yet. I'm almost always middle pack, regardless of car or track in the intermediate group and some clubs, advanced.

 

[GTP]

So your theory is that there is a low pressure zone under the car that is "sucking " air through your horizontal cooler?

I didn't recall you hadn't boxed the radiator or vented your hood yet.

I figure there is high pressure above the oil cooler and the rushing air below the cooler is relatively lower pressure.

I plan to develop some simple aluminum air blockers for the open corner areas.

 

[bnightstar]

I don't know, I had a 2005 STi and a 2001 Z06 to WGI, don't have lap times for either. I haven't had this S550 PP2 on any track yet. I'm almost always middle pack, regardless of car or track in the intermediate group and some clubs, advanced.

Take it to a track and see CHT temps before solving problems that you might not have yet.

 

[Bossdog]

I had my first Track weekend ( with this S550 GT PP2) June 29/30 at Pittsburgh International (PittRace)
Quick recap, I added a Mishmoto Oil cooler (upper grill) as that is how the kit is designed. Probably fit very well in the lower grill. (removed the Stock coolant-to-oil , oil cooler from the factory)
There are some concerns in this thread that the Mishimoto cooler is not adequate for track duty. It was also duly noted that are large differences in how hard each driver drives their S550.
I added an oil temp gauge to the Mishi Sandwich plate for actual oil temp.
I used thin aluminum sheet (and JB weld) to prevent as much incoming air from by-passing/ going around the factory radiator as I could. It was not an exhaustive effort but I was happy with the results. No ducting used on the Mishi oil cooler.

The weekend was cool 75F +/- 5.
The track wheels I purchased were BC Forges 10" front 11" rear with Toyo Proxes R888R's 285/305. I realize this set up has smaller fronts than the Factory set up. I got a "Smok'en" deal on the set so I'm using the tires that came with the wheels.
I thought I push my car "average' for an 20-weekend experienced HPED driver (over 10 years). I road with an instructor that had basically the same GT I have, (plus race seats and sticky tires) He pushed his car WAY harder than I ever considered.

All that said, my (actual) oil temp maxed out a 232, I thought that was quite low. Sorry I didn't get around to looking at the factory gauge, I was keeping my eye on the CHT.
CHT maxed at 230.
I was happy with this. I'm not sure what a 90+F day will do to those numbers.

So, for the Moderate HDPE enthusiast, in the upper Midwest, looking for a well-thought-out, easy to install oil cooler kit, It seems adequate for track days. If I get a "hot" day in August at Mid Ohio, I'll report back.

If you are hard core, High experience level driver, and/or run in very hot climates, the Mishi oil cooler is probably not for you. (as noted elsewhere in this very long thread)

Coincidentally, the S550 GT instructor I road with also had the Mishimoto oil cooler (stock GT radiator) He put massive vents in the hood and still was not staying cool enough. He then removed both upper and lower grills and has been able to run extremely hard with no heat issues. ( he first "Dremeled" out all the closed Hexagon's in both the upper and lower stock grill but that was not enough)

I hope this helps drivers considering adding additional cooling to their S550 GT.

 

[Angrey]

I had my first Track weekend ( with this S550 GT PP2) June 29/30 at Pittsburgh International (PittRace)
Quick recap, I added a Mishmoto Oil cooler (upper grill) as that is how the kit is designed. Probably fit very well in the lower grill. (removed the Stock coolant-to-oil , oil cooler from the factory)
There are some concerns in this thread that the Mishimoto cooler is not adequate for track duty. It was also duly noted that are large differences in how hard each driver drives their S550.
I added an oil temp gauge to the Mishi Sandwich plate for actual oil temp.
I used thin aluminum sheet (and JB weld) to prevent as much incoming air from by-passing/ going around the factory radiator as I could. It was not an exhaustive effort but I was happy with the results. No ducting used on the Mishi oil cooler.

The weekend was cool 75F +/- 5.
The track wheels I purchased were BC Forges 10" front 11" rear with Toyo Proxes R888R's 285/305. I realize this set up has smaller fronts than the Factory set up. I got a "Smok'en" deal on the set so I'm using the tires that came with the wheels.
I thought I push my car "average' for an 20-weekend experienced HPED driver (over 10 years). I road with an instructor that had basically the same GT I have, (plus race seats and sticky tires) He pushed his car WAY harder than I ever considered.

All that said, my (actual) oil temp maxed out a 232, I thought that was quite low. Sorry I didn't get around to looking at the factory gauge, I was keeping my eye on the CHT.
CHT maxed at 230.
I was happy with this. I'm not sure what a 90+F day will do to those numbers.

So, for the Moderate HDPE enthusiast, in the upper Midwest, looking for a well-thought-out, easy to install oil cooler kit, It seems adequate for track days. If I get a "hot" day in August at Mid Ohio, I'll report back.

If you are hard core, High experience level driver, and/or run in very hot climates, the Mishi oil cooler is probably not for you. (as noted elsewhere in this very long thread)

Coincidentally, the S550 GT instructor I road with also had the Mishimoto oil cooler (stock GT radiator) He put massive vents in the hood and still was not staying cool enough. He then removed both upper and lower grills and has been able to run extremely hard with no heat issues. ( he first "Dremeled" out all the closed Hexagon's in both the upper and lower stock grill but that was not enough)

I hope this helps drivers considering adding additional cooling to their S550 GT.

At 75F, you guys either drove the ever living **** out of that car or it needs more cooling.

 

[Bossdog]

At 75F, you guys either drove the ever living **** out of that car or it needs more cooling.

I'm not sure at what conditions he decided he needed to remove the grill. It wasn't this past weekend at 75F. However, he does drive the ever living **** out of that car. And, he probably needs more cooling!

 

[bnightstar]

I actually have cooling problems on the street now. Was on a lovely 3 days trip to Romania for anyone who know this mean Transfagarasan or what is considered the best drivers road in Europe according to Top Gear. It was amazing however this is a long climb up a very steep mountain and we also did Transalpina when we did Transalpina was around 100F outside temp so when driving hard my CHT was pined at 230F the whole time.

I have few issues going on:

1. Hot air from engine entering the cabin through AC vents in the pedal box changing AC settings doesn't fix that.

2. Trans tunnel getting extremely hot (this is going on on track as well though I just realise it now).

3. Trunk getting hot and my luggage was hot after the drive.

4. Oil lose but considering I run 5W20 and the car was run really hard in very hot weather a lost of 1/2 quart should be expected.


Considering Bulgaria is running through hot wave this summer and the car needs to go to the sea in August (400 km drive) I'm a bit concerned with that issues.

I'm thinking that the OEM exhaust has seen his limit and it's causing some of this issues considering even the trunk was hot.

So my plan is:

1. Catback probably 3" not sure if I want to do Headers with high flow cats as well or no.

2. Switch from 5W20 to 5W50 oil probably Motul 8100 as it covers the ford spec

3. Ford Performance Water Pump as well as new Thermostat with lower activation point

4. Oil cooler probably Setrab 960 same as what is on the Dark Horse R with AN12 fittings.

5. Duckted radiator and oil cooler.

 

[EFI]

He then removed both upper and lower grills and has been able to run extremely hard with no heat issues.

Opening up the grilles made the biggest difference for me, with the hood vent a close but solid 2nd. With both, you almost don't need any other cooling mods unless you beat the absolute piss out of it 10/10 every lap.

The key is airflow, you can have all the coolers in the world but if you don't get air to them (and then out) it doesn't matter. Also why alot of people are going to the trouble of boxing out the coolers to improve the efficiency of the air movement even more.

The Ford engineers weren't stupid when they designed the cooling system (especially the upgraded PP/GT350/GT500 ones), but they were most definitely hampered by EPA ratings which is why they closed off alot of the grill and set high fan settings to keep things hot and efficient for emissions. But when you open those up and max out the cooling potential, you find that what they spec'd is pretty good.

 

[NeverSatisfied]

I had my first Track weekend ( with this S550 GT PP2) June 29/30 at Pittsburgh International (PittRace)
Quick recap, I added a Mishmoto Oil cooler (upper grill) as that is how the kit is designed. Probably fit very well in the lower grill. (removed the Stock coolant-to-oil , oil cooler from the factory)
There are some concerns in this thread that the Mishimoto cooler is not adequate for track duty. It was also duly noted that are large differences in how hard each driver drives their S550.
I added an oil temp gauge to the Mishi Sandwich plate for actual oil temp.
I used thin aluminum sheet (and JB weld) to prevent as much incoming air from by-passing/ going around the factory radiator as I could. It was not an exhaustive effort but I was happy with the results. No ducting used on the Mishi oil cooler.

The weekend was cool 75F +/- 5.
The track wheels I purchased were BC Forges 10" front 11" rear with Toyo Proxes R888R's 285/305. I realize this set up has smaller fronts than the Factory set up. I got a "Smok'en" deal on the set so I'm using the tires that came with the wheels.
I thought I push my car "average' for an 20-weekend experienced HPED driver (over 10 years). I road with an instructor that had basically the same GT I have, (plus race seats and sticky tires) He pushed his car WAY harder than I ever considered.

All that said, my (actual) oil temp maxed out a 232, I thought that was quite low. Sorry I didn't get around to looking at the factory gauge, I was keeping my eye on the CHT.
CHT maxed at 230.
I was happy with this. I'm not sure what a 90+F day will do to those numbers.

So, for the Moderate HDPE enthusiast, in the upper Midwest, looking for a well-thought-out, easy to install oil cooler kit, It seems adequate for track days. If I get a "hot" day in August at Mid Ohio, I'll report back.

If you are hard core, High experience level driver, and/or run in very hot climates, the Mishi oil cooler is probably not for you. (as noted elsewhere in this very long thread)

Coincidentally, the S550 GT instructor I road with also had the Mishimoto oil cooler (stock GT radiator) He put massive vents in the hood and still was not staying cool enough. He then removed both upper and lower grills and has been able to run extremely hard with no heat issues. ( he first "Dremeled" out all the closed Hexagon's in both the upper and lower stock grill but that was not enough)

I hope this helps drivers considering adding additional cooling to their S550 GT.

This is a great data point that not everyone needs to go as far down the rabbit hole and to take it a step at a time.

The heat generation goes up exponentially as you drive in the 9-9.5/10 range. If you’re not driving there, the cooling modification list drops dramatically.

I will say of all the tracks I’ve run, pittrace is the track I see the lowest average temps at in my car. Nelson’s generates the highest temps. Mid O is in the middle for me.

 

[WItoTX]

Fun datapoint from this weekend. I ran the hell out of my 2017 GT350 with the track pack, and is bone stock for any cooling. In 100 degrees, I saw 274 max oil temp, 238 CHT, and water basically unaffected. A little higher, but not much beyond temps I can generate in AutoX.

My instructor drove a 2020 GT350 R, effectively bone stock with some brake cooling mods. He was seeing 290 oil temps, 250 CHT's, and even his water was going up (He didn't say a number).

We were turning similar lap times. For reference, I gave 1 point by all weekend, because I wanted to chase someone. So we aren't slouches, even in the hot.

I am impressed with how well my car cooled itself. One cool down lap got oil temps back down to low 230's, and within a couple minutes of idle, was 218. And also impressive was how warm the trunk got, which I chalk up to the diff and exhaust.

Anyways, sharing because I like different datapoints. Found it interesting the 2020 R didn't want to cool as good as the 2017 non-R.

 

[bnightstar]

Fun datapoint from this weekend. I ran the hell out of my 2017 GT350 with the track pack, and is bone stock for any cooling. In 100 degrees, I saw 274 max oil temp, 238 CHT, and water basically unaffected. A little higher, but not much beyond temps I can generate in AutoX.

My instructor drove a 2020 GT350 R, effectively bone stock with some brake cooling mods. He was seeing 290 oil temps, 250 CHT's, and even his water was going up (He didn't say a number).

We were turning similar lap times. For reference, I gave 1 point by all weekend, because I wanted to chase someone. So we aren't slouches, even in the hot.

I am impressed with how well my car cooled itself. One cool down lap got oil temps back down to low 230's, and within a couple minutes of idle, was 218. And also impressive was how warm the trunk got, which I chalk up to the diff and exhaust.

Anyways, sharing because I like different datapoints. Found it interesting the 2020 R didn't want to cool as good as the 2017 non-R.

Did your trans also got hot or hot inside the car my central console is getting really hot. This temps are some really high ones. Here is photo of what Ford consider Dark Horse R to be the target ranges:

So your temps are well out of the safe ranges.

 

[WItoTX]

Did your trans also got hot or hot inside the car my central console is getting really hot. This temps are some really high ones. Here is photo of what Ford consider Dark Horse R to be the target ranges:

So your temps are well out of the safe ranges.

Out of "Target" ranges.

Technically my target oil pressure is out too when idling. But I think the Voodoo and Coyote are different.

Trans saw I think 183 or 193. Yes it did get warm inside the car too.

 

[luc]

Did your trans also got hot or hot inside the car my central console is getting really hot. This temps are some really high ones. Here is photo of what Ford consider Dark Horse R to be the target ranges:

So your temps are well out of the safe ranges.

180 to 230 on target oil temp????
That’s crazy. What type of oil? 5/20?
Synthetic oil is totally fine up to 300*and you need 212* to boil moisture out
On my 17pp1, the factory colored bands for oil temperature are as follows:
White: 100/140
Green 142/279
Yellow 279/295
Red 297/320
I have an Harrop horizontal oil cooler with a mechanical temp gauge on on the out from the engine line and the max that i saw was 265
Car is on squared 305 nt01 , with a pp2 and ford racing track suspension and i’m a very fast driver (30+ years of experience) and the outside temperature (at Thunderhill in norcal) was 106*
So target for what ?????! Which outside temperature? Which rpm’s/engine load ????
And the oil pressure target is at what rpm’s?
Btw the colors are defined as follows:
White : low
Green: normal
Yellow: warm
Red: hot

 

[ice445]

One thing ive found that may or may not be interesting to people is that the grille shutter assembly makes an awesome front shroud for forcing air through the rad. I obviously have it locked out to where it's not operating, but with that combined with a pp rad and the stock updated 180F thermostat, the car usually sits at 190F cht if you're moving. Even in 100F ambient with the AC on, it won't even reach 200F on cht. And I'm at 4300ft elevation, lol. You have to really beat on the car to reach over 200, or do something like crawl up a hill at low speeds with the AC off.

Obviously I'm not tracking and it's a very unusual setup to have a shutter base car with a pp rad, so its not super useful to most of you guys, but I remember when the car was stock I hit into the 230's on cht a few times just on street driving. I'm not sure why the current setup works so well for what it is. I even still have the engine cover on.

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