Top Tier gas - has this been done before?

[ice445]

So that's what the do with all the left over Coors Light.

They have it here too. I put it in my old Taurus in the winter, and that's all it's good for. It actually audibly pings on it in the summer temps under load despite having a 9:1 compression pushrod v6 making 150HP.

It's funny, because I'd wager probably 90% of people use it all the time. You'd think you'd hear more complaints of problems, but you never do. People argue that the altitude means you need less octane, but that's not really true until you're way up there. Even in Denver, you still need at least 86.5 octane or something like that since the cars will just push the timing or boost up to compensate for lower air density.

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[sdskinner73]

I use BP or Shell. Prefer shell, but they started jumping premium $1.40 over regular (vs average of $1 more). BP was top tier, but stopped paying for the fee around 2018. I have a hard time believing they changed their fuel. Also have their card, so it works out there too. Never had any issues from fuel. If I go e85, likely stick to Meijer. Always tests well around me and they are top tier as well.

 

[robvas]

If I go e85, likely stick to Meijer. Always tests well around me and they are top tier as well.

Nitpicking but there is no such certification from 'TOP TIER' for E85, it's gasoline or diesel only.

 

[D Bergstrom]

So in many places in the country, the base gas is all the same. Las Vegas has a pipeline from California, they pump 87 for a few days, switch over to 89 for some time, then 91, diesel, etc. That pipeline leads to a distribution center and that is where all of the different companies pick up their base gas. Those companies then take it back to their own yards and add whatever additives they put in the gas. The companies then send out that gas to their stations. So no matter where you go in the Las Vegas valley, you are getting the same base fuel. The only difference is the additives each company adds, which my guess they are all similar, only so much stuff you can add to gas, and of course the quality of the tanks underground at the gas stations. Pretty sure most of the country is like this. Remember the Colonial Pipeline Ransomeware stack back in 2021? That pipeline distributes gas all through the southeastern US, same as the Vegas pipeline. Pretty sure California has a pipeline network also.

For my F-150 and wife's Nissan Rogue, we buy gas at Costco or Smith's grocery stores, since shopping at Smiths can get you up to a dollar off a gallon every month. Mustang gets either Costco 91, or on occasion Chevron 91. Runs the same on either, no difference at all. Same for the other vehicles, don't notice a difference between Costco or Smiths.

Doug

 

[sox3]

I see lots of folks talking about performance, what I'm also concerned about is what you can't feel or see. Lower quality gas leaving carbon deposits over time. I'm not saying the branded "Top Tier" isn't a self serving Org (always follow the money...) but it still could be happening even when you don't hear a knock or ping.

What people don't know is the way gas is blended to control refinery inventory of other products. I ran the gasoline blender for Sunoco for quite sometime. Our cat gasoline came off the unit at around 87 octane. If we were high on heavy ends material they would be added to the blend then offset by some lighter ends to bring back up to 87. This could be Done for 93 also, but nat as much as 87 blends. The blends were based on type of crude and what products they are needing to produce and get rid of the junk. It was a balancing act. I never use 87 in anything.
Money is in chemicals, gasoline is a byproduct of the cracking process.
Just my view.

 

[gone_n_60]

What people don't know is the way gas is blended to control refinery inventory of other products. I ran the gasoline blender for Sunoco for quite sometime. Our cat gasoline came off the unit at around 87 octane. If we were high on heavy ends material they would be added to the blend then offset by some lighter ends to bring back up to 87. This could be Done for 93 also, but nat as much as 87 blends. The blends were based on type of crude and what products they are needing to produce and get rid of the junk. It was a balancing act. I never use 87 in anything.
Money is in chemicals, gasoline is a byproduct of the cracking process.
Just my view.

hoho I lived in Houston for 20+ years. Ended up working for Hill Petroleum (famous refinery for allowing Urban Cowboy to film there) which then became Phibro Energy which then became part of Valero Energy (my dad retired from there). I was IT but I learned a bit about blending, cracking, turn arounds, Gathering operations and all that. Our Engineers hated the EPA blend mandates and explained how the gov't just wasted millions of dollars for about no effect on emissions.

 

[sox3]

EPA was the end of Sunoco refinery here. Too costly to upgrade the facility. I went back from retirement to work on tear down and rebuild into an LPG facility

 

[shogun32]

Our Engineers hated the EPA blend mandates and explained how the gov't just wasted millions of dollars for about no effect on emissions

Which is what the govt does. It can't help but do otherwise.

I about gagged to death behind a 90s panel van with expired (natch) Maryland tags after only about 1/8 of a mile at interstate speeds this morning. I thought 60s carbed mustangs were bad when standing behind them...

 

[ZeroTX]

"Top Tier" is a marketing gimmick. It doesn't mean objectively higher quality. All commercially available gasoline is of high quality if it's fresh and clean. Buy from stations that go through a lot of gas and have fresh gas.

 

[Smq1207]

I worked at a Sunoco station for over 10 years up until 2018 and every year when the state came in to test our pumps for volume and octane. the 93 always tested over 94 usually 94.1 to 94.3. I used to have the paperwork to prove it . But I was always told that it was cheaper for Sunoco when they sold 94 to change the signs the then change the refinery’s equipment. I’ve always used Sunoco since and never had a problem

 

[m3incorp]

Yes, it is available. All my cars in Colorado have recommended fuel requirements of at least 91 octane. Here in GA, I use 93 in the Mustang and 87 in the Fusion.

In Colorado they sell a 85 Octane

I burn 93 in my Ecoboost and have saved 50 cents a gallon!

 

[markayash]

Yes, it is available. All my cars in Colorado have recommended fuel requirements of at least 91 octane. Here in GA, I use 93 in the Mustang and 87 in the Fusion.

I heard " regular" gas is 85 octane in Colorado. Seems crazy but they said with the high altitude they don't need 87?

 

[m3incorp]

I've read that the high altitude is why we can get away with lower octane gas.

A quick google search brings this up.

Octane rating and altitude are related because the air is less dense at higher altitudes, which means less air flows into a car's engine. This creates a slightly richer air-fuel ratio that can help prevent engine knocking. As a result, gasoline marketers often sell lower octane gasoline in areas with higher elevations. ASTM specifications allow for a reduction of 1.0 to 1.5 octane numbers per thousand feet of altitude. For example, in Denver and other parts of Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, and Montana, regular gas typically has an octane rating of 85

On the flip side, horsepower is lower.

In general, a naturally aspirated combustion engine loses 3% of its power for every 1,000 ft of elevation gain. This is because there's less air to pull in at higher altitudes, so the engine can't burn fuel as efficiently. For example, a 100 horsepower engine at sea level would have 85 horsepower at 5,000 ft and 70 horsepower at 10,000 ft.

Turbocharging helps offset the above effect. Superchargering will lose around 3psi of boost.

I heard " regular" gas is 85 octane in Colorado. Seems crazy but they said with the high altitude they don't need 87?

 

[K4fxd]

This creates a slightly richer air-fuel ratio that can help prevent engine knocking.

This may have been true with carbs but not closed loop fuel injected engines.

I think it is due to the less air density this reduces cylinder fill thus reducing effective compression ratio.

 

[m3incorp]

You may very well be right. I have only driven one of my cars at near sea level in GA and then at 6,000 ft in Colorado. That car had 91 octane in both states. It performed well with other cars in both states. Edit...it had 93 in GA and 91 in Colorado.

This may have been true with carbs but not closed loop fuel injected engines.

I think it is due to the less air density this reduces cylinder fill thus reducing effective compression ratio.

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