Oil pressure issues..

[Zrussian13]

An internal leak could be the issue. But relative to a restriction increasing or decreasing pressure, that is dependent on whether the restriction is before or after the pump...or before or after the point at which you are taking readings.

That what I was thinking. I know there's no restriction before the pump but I wonder if it's in between the pump and oil filter housing where the sensor is.

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[Zrussian13]

Best diagram I could find if it helps anyone.

 

[Timbuck]

There is a video a low oil pressure coyote I saw a few weeks ago , where on a brand new engine build , the main oil pick up tube had slightly fallen down/out of the oil pump causing an air leak. Thus in turn creating low oil pressure.
mine is a gen2 and has 2 bolts that hold it to the oil pump. The flaw is the design in this pic , it can fall out if not fitted correctly.

I’ll try and find it. Edit. Still can not find the video of it unfortunately.

 

[Timbuck]

Something like this could cause similar problem

 

[furdfan2018]

Not yet. I confirmed oil pressure is in fact low so it isn't an electrical issue. I pulled the pan and the pick up, seal and oil squirters look good but at that point Benny told me to talk to ford warranty before i tear anything else apart. I had three kids graduating this may so I had to put it on hold while I got through a preschool, High school and college graduation plus all the celebrations. Lol. I spoke to ford this week and basically I'm on my own. This weekend I need to get the ac working in my clapped out civic. It's hot out here and I never thought I'd still be driving that thing! After I get it going I'll get back into the mustang.

Right now I'm getting 8-10 psi at idle (spec is 10-15) and I should get 30-40 at 2k but mine isn't climbing to 30 until 3k rpms. It also only shoots up to 55psi at start up and I know before it would shoot up to 90ish for a second.

I'm thinking it has to be a blockage before the sensor or a bad seal down stream. Correct me if I'm thinking about this wrong but if the blockage was past the sensor then I'd still have good pressure up to the sensor right?

Not sure on OP, but for you -- the gen 3 cars have a bypass that reduces oil pressure in low load situations.

You should make sure your bypass is not staying open -- that would cause exactly what you are describing.

https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/ford-solenoid-hl3z6m280a?c=Zz1lbmdpbmUmcz1lbmdpbmUmbD0yJm49QXNzZW1ibGllcyBQYWdlJmE9Zm9yZCZvPW11c3RhbmcmeT0yMDE4JnQ9Z3QmZT01LTBsLXY4LWdhcw==

 

[CrackedHorn]

Something like this could cause similar problem

When I tore down my gen 2 for OPG and phasers I found what appeared to be part of a safety seal foil that comes on new bottles of oil. It was just resting on the chain tensioner.

I could absolutely see that piece making it to the PU tube and causing a restriction.

 

[Zrussian13]

Not sure on OP, but for you -- the gen 3 cars have a bypass that reduces oil pressure in low load situations.

You should make sure your bypass is not staying open -- that would cause exactly what you are describing.

https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/ford-solenoid-hl3z6m280a?c=Zz1lbmdpbmUmcz1lbmdpbmUmbD0yJm49QXNzZW1ibGllcyBQYWdlJmE9Zm9yZCZvPW11c3RhbmcmeT0yMDE4JnQ9Z3QmZT01LTBsLXY4LWdhcw==

I tried swapping the bypass solenoid with the one from my old engine to verify the new one wasn't defective but nothing changed. Other than that I haven't found any troubleshooting procedures for the bypass related to the oil pressure code I have.

 

[ice445]

I tried swapping the bypass solenoid with the one from my old engine to verify the new one wasn't defective but nothing changed. Other than that I haven't found any troubleshooting procedures for the bypass related to the oil pressure code I have.

It's a shame taking the pan off is so terrible on these cars or else I'd say take it off and have a look. You could maybe borescope the oil pump area from the filter hole and see if you see anything.

Maybe it's as simple as a defective filter.

 

[Cobra Jet]

That's yer problem.. clearances are all over the place.

in the car when i bought it.. as far i as i have heard its one of the only things they have been able to make worth a darn.

There are multiple threads on issues with aftermarket OPG's.

cool. once again, in the car when i bought it.

@WildHorse is pointing out something very clear and important - but you’re giving lopsided responses to someone who’s trying to help you and he is making a very good point. Have you checked the clearances on the OPG set that is in there or pulled it to check for any abnormalities? We get it that you didn’t put the OPGs in and you bought the car that way…. But at least take the advice before blowing him off…

What is your ACTUAL oil psi numbers? I don’t want the idiot gauge “high”-“low”, what are the actual numbers you’re seeing? Can you data log those numbers, or have you hooked up a true oil psi gauge to the block to watch the #’s while diving?

What oil weight are you running?

I had compiled the best OPG threads on here that were posted by others warning “newbies” of the potential of bad OPG sets and what to look for, avoid, and what set is trusted. Quite a few of the OPG sets available are garbage, no matter how much the vendor wants to proclaim “theirs” is the best because it’s made of some super-uber out of this world material that only they can get…. Or that they are punching them out in their back room and no one else can….

Here’s some threads that contain factual OPG info, take time to read them, because not all OPGs are the same and yes there have been reported PSI inconsistencies and failures with some aftermarket OPG’s.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/mmr-opgs.156369/

If you’re going to attemp OPG/timing yourself, or get a shop to do it, here’s important notes so check the below threads before jumping in without knowledge:

Incorrect timing marks on crank sprockets:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/psa-boundary-crank-sprocket-marks-incorrect.146665/

Clearance and other important OPG issues discussed:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/check-your-new-upgraded-oil-pump-gears.144427/

Ford Performance OPG notes:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...erotor-oil-pump-gear-set.160950/#post-3278453

How common the OPG issue is:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/how-common-are-issues-with-billet-opgs.168402/

And some of the consensus on here in many of the prior OPG posts is that the Ford Performance OPG’s are a better choice for what is available.

Pull the existing OPG set out, throw it away, and get the preferred and recommended Ford Performance set….

—-

If you replaced the oil sensor and still have the same psi issue, it’s most likely not the sensor. Also most sensors on a Ford and other vehicles can be tested with a multimeter by probing the contacts. If the specs come in higher or lower to the Ford operating spec for that sensor then it’s bad. Usually if the result is within 1-5 points of the Ford spec it’s still good. Always test a sensor first before throwing parts at any vehicle…. Same is true with O2 sensors, MAF sensors, etc. All sensors have a certain operating spec and any can be probed snd tested at the connector on the sensor before pulling it or wasting money….

—
And since you mention the car has a Whipple, here’s another important thread for you to review when time permits… older thread RE: Whipple and broken cranks:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/whipple-broken-cranks.185642/

 

[Zrussian13]

It's a shame taking the pan off is so terrible on these cars or else I'd say take it off and have a look. You could maybe borescope the oil pump area from the filter hole and see if you see anything.

Maybe it's as simple as a defective filter.

I already pulled the pan. It is a royal pita! Everything looked good with the pick up and seal. I did put my borescope up into the pil pump housing and as far as I could see the gears look fine. I'm going to pull the oil filter housing next and scope from that side towards the pump.

 

[furdfan2018]

I already pulled the pan. It is a royal pita! Everything looked good with the pick up and seal. I did put my borescope up into the pil pump housing and as far as I could see the gears look fine. I'm going to pull the oil filter housing next and scope from that side towards the pump.

you cannot "see" the excessive tolerance in MMR gears from looking at the pump after pulling the pan.

You'll need to hit them with feeler gauges to get an idea of what's going on.

When building my motor, I had a set of MMR gears that varied from .0080 to .015!! depending on the vane I was measuring.

Sent those back and bought a set of FRPP forged gears and they all were around .004--.005.


https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/mmr-vs-oem-opg-clearance.176826/




All that said... im not convinced excessive play in MMR gears would cause low oil pressure... they might make some noise, but low psi im not convinced.

Have you tried running a thicker oil to see what affect that has on oil psi?

 

[Zrussian13]

you cannot "see" the excessive tolerance in MMR gears from looking at the pump after pulling the pan.

You'll need to hit them with feeler gauges to get an idea of what's going on.

When building my motor, I had a set of MMR gears that varied from .0080 to .015!! depending on the vane I was measuring.

Sent those back and bought a set of FRPP forged gears and they all were around .004--.005.


https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/mmr-vs-oem-opg-clearance.176826/

Op has mmr. I have stock gen 3 gears. I'm scoping every passage I come across until I find the issue.

 

[furdfan2018]

Op has mmr. I have stock gen 3 gears. I'm scoping every passage I come across until I find the issue.

Well shit.

If it's not a blocked pick up or failed bypass solenoid all that's really left is excessive bearing clearances which seems strange.

Does it make any noise?

 

[Zrussian13]

Well shit.

If it's not a blocked pick up or failed bypass solenoid all that's really left is excessive bearing clearances which seems strange.

Does it make any noise?

Engine runs strong. No noises other than all the normal coyote ones. I never would have noticed pressure was low if it wasnt for the idiot light. The pp1 guage reads high so pressure looked ok there. Hoping to dive back in this weekend to try and get to the bottom of it.

 

[Bhorton91]

@WildHorse is pointing out something very clear and important - but you’re giving lopsided responses to someone who’s trying to help you and he is making a very good point. Have you checked the clearances on the OPG set that is in there or pulled it to check for any abnormalities? We get it that you didn’t put the OPGs in and you bought the car that way…. But at least take the advice before blowing him off…

What is your ACTUAL oil psi numbers? I don’t want the idiot gauge “high”-“low”, what are the actual numbers you’re seeing? Can you data log those numbers, or have you hooked up a true oil psi gauge to the block to watch the #’s while diving?

What oil weight are you running?

I had compiled the best OPG threads on here that were posted by others warning “newbies” of the potential of bad OPG sets and what to look for, avoid, and what set is trusted. Quite a few of the OPG sets available are garbage, no matter how much the vendor wants to proclaim “theirs” is the best because it’s made of some super-uber out of this world material that only they can get…. Or that they are punching them out in their back room and no one else can….

Here’s some threads that contain factual OPG info, take time to read them, because not all OPGs are the same and yes there have been reported PSI inconsistencies and failures with some aftermarket OPG’s.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/mmr-opgs.156369/

If you’re going to attemp OPG/timing yourself, or get a shop to do it, here’s important notes so check the below threads before jumping in without knowledge:

Incorrect timing marks on crank sprockets:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/psa-boundary-crank-sprocket-marks-incorrect.146665/

Clearance and other important OPG issues discussed:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/check-your-new-upgraded-oil-pump-gears.144427/

Ford Performance OPG notes:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...erotor-oil-pump-gear-set.160950/#post-3278453

How common the OPG issue is:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/how-common-are-issues-with-billet-opgs.168402/

And some of the consensus on here in many of the prior OPG posts is that the Ford Performance OPG’s are a better choice for what is available.

Pull the existing OPG set out, throw it away, and get the preferred and recommended Ford Performance set….

—-

If you replaced the oil sensor and still have the same psi issue, it’s most likely not the sensor. Also most sensors on a Ford and other vehicles can be tested with a multimeter by probing the contacts. If the specs come in higher or lower to the Ford operating spec for that sensor then it’s bad. Usually if the result is within 1-5 points of the Ford spec it’s still good. Always test a sensor first before throwing parts at any vehicle…. Same is true with O2 sensors, MAF sensors, etc. All sensors have a certain operating spec and any can be probed snd tested at the connector on the sensor before pulling it or wasting money….

—
And since you mention the car has a Whipple, here’s another important thread for you to review when time permits… older thread RE: Whipple and broken cranks:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/whipple-broken-cranks.185642/

I understand he is pointing something out. I don't have the time to pull the gears. It's at a shop right now. 20lbs is all they could get. They put a manual gauge on it as well. Their thought it the gears may have wore the case. If thats the case, I told them boundary or tss with a new case.

I knew I took a chance with the mmr stuff, thought maybe the cleaned their crap up from the 4v days, but silly me for thinking they fixed things.

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