23 Mach 1 vs. 24 Dark Horse

[Hack]

The normal GT could be 250# lighter while spending very little actual money. What they would have to do is engineer the car from the ground up to meet an actual weight goal. From design to stampings to castings, everything has to be pointed towards the goal of losing weight. The engineers have to be given the instruction, "It can't just do the job, it has to do the job in the lightest way possible." That needs to be beaten into them.

I bet there's a minimum of 25# of fat in the rear suspension alone. The camber arm doesn't need to be cast steel. cast AL is fine. The divorced rear spring design means you have to run a high rate rear spring (more steel) and it means the arm has to be sized to take the spring loads in bending. That big cast AL arm is silly. Put a little structure in the shock towers and all of that could be lighter. The rear subframe itself uses big, heavy wall tubing which doesn't seem optimized at all to the job. Smaller tubes and more triangles would go a long way towards dropping weight.

When you start this job at the level of concept, it can make a huge difference. You have to look at the density of literally every part on the car and you have to _really_ care.

I agree. Even though I realize most people like bigger cars, I personally really wish Ford would have made the Mustang 200-300 lbs smaller. Forget reducing factors of safety on their engineering, just make the car a little smaller. Weight would take care of itself. No expensive materials needed.

So close to $70k with gas guzzler . Still over $10k more than I'd pay for it.
Ford Interior and Exterior build quality is just not good enough in a Mustang to be asking these prices imo.

I think the build quality is fine. I think the current Mustangs are every bit as good with respect to build quality as they have been in the past. I just don't think the performance is enough better than my 2017 to justify paying more than double for something new. At the rate I'm using it up, the 2017 may just last the rest of my life. It's definitely not worn out.

I have yet to see anyone post a lap time/video from a DH that verifies its faster, other than Lightning Laps and Throttle House. I don't believe there is even one DH lap time posted in the Road Course section of this forum unless I missed it. I'm heading to Road America this weekend and will see if I can get some lap times for comparison.

Yes, TH has a very small track that emphasizes sticky tires over max power. Bigger tracks will see weight and aero come into play more. The TH lap time and the braking performance of the DH are the datapoints that make me think tires are what is really making the difference with the DH.

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[TeeLew]

I agree. Even though I realize most people like bigger cars, I personally really wish Ford would have made the Mustang 200-300 lbs smaller. Forget reducing factors of safety on their engineering, just make the car a little smaller. Weight would take care of itself. No expensive materials needed.

And that's the other way to do it. Just make a physically smaller car. I'm not talking about reducing any safety factors. When you design a part, it will generally only have 1 or 2 places where the stress is concentrated. Once you have those addressed, much of the rest of the part is often ballast. If the necessary factor or safety is 2.5, then you might have areas on it that are 10+. _That's_ where you reduce weight.

 

[Rael]

They should make Porsches smaller too.

 

[TeeLew]

They should make Porsches smaller too.

Those are getting ridiculous. Everyone thinks you need 500+ HP to have fun. It's stupid. Judging the enjoyment of a car by the numbers in a magazine is foolish.

 

[Hack]

They should make Porsches smaller too.

The 911 is positively PORKY.

 

[Jasonb543]

This thread makes me laugh.

Sidenote McLaren 720s are dropping in price… maybe we all just make the jump to smaller, lighter, better balanced, higher HP cars…

I feel like a 720s or a huracan would really put a ford dark horse in it’s place.

 

[Meatball]

I agree. Even though I realize most people like bigger cars, I personally really wish Ford would have made the Mustang 200-300 lbs smaller. Forget reducing factors of safety on their engineering, just make the car a little smaller. Weight would take care of itself. No expensive materials needed.



I think the build quality is fine. I think the current Mustangs are every bit as good with respect to build quality as they have been in the past. I just don't think the performance is enough better than my 2017 to justify paying more than double for something new. At the rate I'm using it up, the 2017 may just last the rest of my life. It's definitely not worn out.



Yes, TH has a very small track that emphasizes sticky tires over max power. Bigger tracks will see weight and aero come into play more. The TH lap time and the braking performance of the DH are the datapoints that make me think tires are what is really making the difference with the DH.

Is your 17 a premium? I know it’s PP1 but let’s say it’s at the base weight of 3705lbs. DH is about 3975. (3975/3705) x 472hp = 506hp weight normalized. Even if your car is a little heavier than that you’re very close in power-wt ratio.

 

[shogun32]

Even if your car is a little heavier

it has the vastly better trans ratios regardless of all other factors.

 

[Roady68]

The 911 is positively PORKY.

There is a poster I saw showing rear views of the evolution of the 911 from '63 to 2023. The car has grown in every dimension except height. Cool poster. the green house hasn't changed much in 60 years, but everything else has grown.

 

[shogun32]

the green house hasn't changed much in 60 years, but everything else has grown.

I don't know about you but my skull hasn't grown at all in 40+ years either, but my ass, thighs, and biceps sure have.
And the ex made pains to remind me my head sure has swelled along with...

 

[TeeLew]

This thread makes me laugh.

Sidenote McLaren 720s are dropping in price… maybe we all just make the jump to smaller, lighter, better balanced, higher HP cars…

I feel like a 720s or a huracan would really put a ford dark horse in it’s place.

I bet an F-16 is faster, too. You realize these are completely different types of cars, right?

 

[Rael]

Well, they're certainly harder to get in and out of.

 

[glockholiday]

How wrong is the statement....... The Dark Horse is just a 2024 Mach1

 

[ChitownStang]

Those are getting ridiculous. Everyone thinks you need 500+ HP to have fun. It's stupid. Judging the enjoyment of a car by the numbers in a magazine is foolish.

I think you need 500hp to have fun with a V8’s
But yeah Miata’s are fun too but you lose the V8 sound .

How wrong is the statement....... The Dark Horse is just a 2024 Mach1

I’m offended by that statement

 

[MAGS1]

How wrong is the statement....... The Dark Horse is just a 2024 Mach1

I mean, that’s basically what it is. It took the Mach’s slot.

Same HP increase over the GT, more track focused with extra coolers, suspension, brakes, tires, etc. It really is a Mach, just using a new nameplate.

The S550 Mach is a great car, but I’m curious if all the Mach owners on here poo pooing the DH would be doing so had they kept the Mach nameplate?

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