ESS or Whipple

[Canadian Crimson]

So there seems to be two defined camps in the Mustang community. ESS and Whipple yes I know there are other choices.
ESS is a relatively simple DIY installation, not really sure about the Whipple.
Besides price (ESS g3) Whipple being considerably more $$ and power delivery with the centrifugal being higher rpm and the Whipple being on the bottom end.
Is there really one that is truly better at the end of the day?

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[Zrussian13]

Really depends on your goals and set up. There is no right or wrong choice. Coyotes love boost. Lets start with what are your goals and are you an A10 or MT82 car?

 

[engineermike]

Do both?

 

[Canadian Crimson]

Really depends on your goals and set up. There is no right or wrong choice. Coyotes love boost. Lets start with what are your goals and are you an A10 or MT82 car?

MT82-D4 with PP1

 

[Goterr0r]

Do both?

How can he do both... He doesn't have a 24 manifold with two TBs.... lol

 

[jpjr501]

If you had an 10R80 then ESS for sure just because Centri's shift right in it's powerband. Plus they don't make a ton of torque so great for rolls.

For a stick, Whipple just because the RPM drops lower between shifts, the torque will put you back in it better.

Have a Procharger with 10R80 at 800hp, it's nuts.

 

[engineermike]

It's all pros and cons....

ESS is I think lighter, easier to install, cheaper. But you get little help down low where the Coyote is already lacking. Also, the PCM can't really control airflow like it's designed to. The throttle body control wasn't intended to have anything but atmospheric pressure on the upstream side, so the tunes are bandaided to try to cover up the problem.

Whipple takes 12-16 hrs to install and is a bit heavy and expensive, but you get a healthy boost in low-end torque to go with the power. I believe the water/air intercooler works better as well, but it is more complicated.

 

[vinny89gt]

ESS is I think lighter, easier to install, cheaper. But you get little help down low where the Coyote is already lacking. Also, the PCM can't really control airflow like it's designed to. The throttle body control wasn't intended to have anything but atmospheric pressure on the upstream side, so the tunes are bandaided to try to cover up the problem.

Are you speaking about all centri's or just ESS in particular?

 

[engineermike]

Are you speaking about all centri's or just ESS in particular?

All centris, though I didn’t check on pricing of all of them.

 

[slime_bullet]

I'm not sure how much cheaper the ess is, but after adding fueling, tuning device, credits and a tune its just as expensive as the stage on whipple complete kit

 

[Timbuck]

It's all pros and cons....

ESS is I think lighter, easier to install, cheaper. But you get little help down low where the Coyote is already lacking. Also, the PCM can't really control airflow like it's designed to. The throttle body control wasn't intended to have anything but atmospheric pressure on the upstream side, so the tunes are bandaided to try to cover up the problem.

Whipple takes 12-16 hrs to install and is a bit heavy and expensive, but you get a healthy boost in low-end torque to go with the power. I believe the water/air intercooler works better as well, but it is more complicated.

can you please elaborate Mike. So I’m guessing same with a turbo applications as well ? Is it due to the throttle it self not being strong enough to control boost pressure accurately? Can this be solved running better TB ?

 

[josephstef]

Depends what your using it for, I had an ESS g3 was using around street. I lasted about 4 weeks before I got rid of it and put a top mount supercharger on (Harrop 2750).
Way more fun around the street! + dont look like a d*** revving up high to get pinned to the back of the seat anymore.

 

[engineermike]

can you please elaborate Mike. So I’m guessing same with a turbo applications as well ? Is it due to the throttle it self not being strong enough to control boost pressure accurately? Can this be solved running better TB ?

The pcm logic regards the throttle as a valve with a predictable flow rate for a given angle. It determines the desired airflow rate and sends the blade to an angle where it expects to get that flow rate. But in order to correctly predict flow through a valve, you need to know the pressure before and after the valve. After the throttle valve is manifold absolute pressure (map). Before the valve on a coyote is assumed by the logic to be barometric pressure. Ecoboost logic calls this pressure TIP or throttle inlet pressure. The coyote operating system doesn’t have the ability to use non-barometric pressures as the upstream pressure, so it will always be in error when the boost is present. There are some tricks and bandaids you can do to mask or hide this problem, some working better than others.

As usual, I believe Roush does the best job at adapting the coyote logic to boost, as they actually add a SIP (supercharger inlet pressure) and map sensors just like gt500 has. This makes throttle predictions even better still.

 

[CrackedHorn]

Theoretically, having boost come in at higher RPMs is easier on the engine. I can't quantify this, though. Not sure anyone really could.


As far as racing, neither one would have an edge except you might be fighting traction issues with a whipple depending on the race.

Some guys have heat soak issues with PD blowers but most of that can be resolved from what I've heard.

PD blowers are definitely more fun around town, though.


And just to confuse things even more, you can add a waste gate and a smaller pulley on a centri to have boost come in sooner.

Oh, and some people prefer the sound of one setup to the other.

 

[engineermike]

Theoretically, having boost come in at higher RPMs is easier on the engine. I can't quantify this, though. Not sure anyone really could.

With a Whipple or Roush kit, for about $200 in software you can do some cool stuff like this that can mimic the centrif torque curve....and in about 20 seconds put it back to a PD blower torque curve.

As far as racing, neither one would have an edge except you might be fighting traction issues with a whipple depending on the race.

Another cool thing with the same software, torque by gear if that floats your boat:

Some guys have heat soak issues with PD blowers but most of that can be resolved from what I've heard.

Mainly just the Roush has this issue....and they really missed the boat on this.

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