30% mix - fueling experts chime in

[K4fxd]

You have the gen 3. The 30% E allows full timing so yes you do have more horsepower. Gen 2 benefits too, just not as much.

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[WildHorse]

THANK YOU Wildhorse and everyone else here!

No problem. I too noticed a significant power increase. Fuel milage is about the same as well.

I checked the logs, knock sensors are super happy. So I'll add some timing to the top end.

 

[WildHorse]

OOOOHHHHH YAH ! She's making power now boys ! Will hit the track when they finally open.

 

[tdstuart]

yep you nailed it, its less power per unit volume but its stable at a much higher volume. So the total power in the cylinder is more.

its also more all the time, i used stoich as an example but it holds true at power enrich too.

Doesn't ethanol have a lot more oxygen in it than gasoline?

Isn't this the reason you can make more power without increasing timing because you get more oxygen from the fuel which means you can add in a little more fuel meaning you get more power?

 

[WildHorse]

Isn't this the reason you can make more power without increasing timing because you get more oxygen from the fuel which means you can add in a little more fuel meaning you get more power?

Yes. And a bit more cooling effect, also the knock sensors will stay happy and keep adding timing.

 

[engineermike]

The power increase with ethanol and no timing is very small. It’s actually defined in the ford cal. Look for ethanol efficiency under the torque management/monitoring tab.

 

[WildHorse]

1 month update:
Car still loving E30. Loves 30% mix with C85 even more.
Consistent 2c degree drop in CHT as well.
No noticeable drop in MPG (for those who care, I don't).
Exhaust smells much better with cat delete.
LTFT very happy.

 

[50BMG]

1 month update:
Car still loving E30. Loves 30% mix with C85 even more.
Consistent 2c degree drop in CHT as well.
No noticeable drop in MPG (for those who care, I don't).
Exhaust smells much better with cat delete.
LTFT very happy.

I'm in the same boat; Lovin' It! (although I wish I had the ability to connect my car to a laptop to actually see what's going on to higher degree).
In Sport mode, the car runs very well on the E30 Mix from my local pump (11.1gal. 93 octane gas @6%E + 4.4gal. E85 @90%E=@ 96.4 Octane mix).
I have notice a small drop in MPG (from 19 to 17), but that could be to me whacking the throttle a bit more too!
;-)
About the ONLY thing I've noticed recently (and it may have been doing it before but I never noticed) is a 1 cylinder "miss" at idle, happening maybe once every few minutes. Literally, it's like one tiny "hiccup" in the idle. Revs don't drop. It can't really "feel" it on the chassis either. Just a sound "blip" thing makes it noticeable. Again, my lack of noticing it happening before the E30 testing makes it completely possible that I'm just being hyper sensitive in my effort to diagnose any negative effects.

Talked to the head of service at the local Ford dealer about these things (along with installing a 3.0L Whipple on the car since Ford Racing now offers that blower), and while he said the car "can likely handle the E30 with a stock tune". He added "... you're putting a lot of trust in the ECU/Ignition Computer/Spark Knock Sensors running the car that way". To wit I surmised, aren't we ALWAYS putting a lot of trust into these very same things, even when the car is running on straight, supposedly E10- 93 octane pump gas and we run the car "fast", like it (hopefully) was designed to be used!?!

BTW, he said he couldn't "officially" install the 3.0L Whipple and offer any of the "Ford protections" that the new Dark Horse 'Stangs are afforded when the dealer installs the very same blowers on those cars. The 2.65L Roush TVS blower was what he offered to put on my car, along with telling me the Roush setup would also be harder on the drivetrain of my car than the 3.0L Whipple unit.
Go figure huh?

 

[WildHorse]

He added "... you're putting a lot of trust in the ECU/Ignition Computer/Spark Knock Sensors running the car that way"

Well you can tell him you know this guy who checks his logs, knock sensors keep adding timing, never takes it away with E30. LTFT (Long Term Fuel Trims) are within 10%

 

[wingnutt]

yes

 

[engineermike]

@50BMG so he thinks adding octane somehow makes it more dangerous?

 

[50BMG]

@50BMG so he thinks adding octane somehow makes it more dangerous?

I think he is more concerned about the A/F ratio being too far off with the proper tunes for higher alcohol.
That's just a guess though.
My own/only concern is running a bit too lean too. This extra E stuff is all new to me.

 

[K4fxd]

My own/only concern is running a bit too lean too.

It will throw a code if the trims get anywhere near the car running lean.

 

[engineermike]

I think he is more concerned about the A/F ratio being too far off with the proper tunes for higher alcohol.
That's just a guess though.
My own/only concern is running a bit too lean too. This extra E stuff is all new to me.

I get that. If the car is tuned (stock) for E10, then going to E30 will cause the feed-forward lambda to be about 10% lean. The STFT works really quickly on these so it won't be lean for long. If it's a stock or Roush tune, it will pull timing in the meantime, though some tuners get rid of this protection for some odd reason.

 

[WildHorse]

I MUST make a correction. I ran the tank dry. then added the 30% mix and drove it for a week.

STFT was bang on.
LTFT was around 15-16% (Previously I said 10%).

Still very acceptable.

It will throw a code if the trims get anywhere near the car running lean.

100% correct.

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