Will the S550 be the swan song of the horsepower wars?

[JonnyMustang]

From the beginning of hotrodding, we've seen a steady rise in horsepower, with a massive peak in 1969-1972. This, of course, was the end of the muscle car area and the beginning of the malaise era. American car companies learned to make more with less and we saw HP Wars II since the 90s with the addition of foreign manufacturers as well. The 5.0 is reaching its maximum NA capacity and seems to only have a few more tricks up their sleeves.

What will have to give? We want it all nowadays, 30 MPGs, nav screen, big wheels, and low weight. But with the F150 having to go on a serious diet just to meet fuel requirements, will the Mustang be next? It seems like the S550 will be the last high horsepower Mustang we'll have for awhile...until electrical technology can catch up, anyway. Seems like the EB Mustang might be the primer for the Mustang II in 2020.

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[motoroid65]

Depends what you consider to be high horsepower? I think you can argue the HP wars are over even with the S550. Even if the GT sees 440hps the HP wars at the top end are almost for sure over already unless we continue to see a FI V8 at 5.2L or higher displacement which I HIGHLY doubt based on what we have heard. Of course, with the Mustang gaining IRS and much improved handling and the next Camaro probably losing a lot of weight, it won't affect its ability to compete with the likes of the M4 and other cars above its pay grade.

Pure straight line performance is now on the back burner, where it should have been a long time ago IMO.

 

[Dirk McGurck]

Depends what you consider to be high horsepower? I think you can argue the HP wars are over even with the S550. Even if the GT sees 440hps the HP wars at the top end are almost for sure over already unless we continue to see a FI V8 at 5.2L or higher displacement which I HIGHLY doubt based on what we have heard. Of course, with the Mustang gaining IRS and much improved handling and the next Camaro probably losing a lot of weight, it won't affect its ability to compete with the likes of the M4 and other cars above its pay grade.

Pure straight line performance is now on the back burner, where it should have been a long time ago IMO.

I agree with a lot of this.

I think the previous latest GT500 is a study in just throwing HP at a car is not the end all, be all of performance, as the Boss 302 seems to hang just as well or better on a race track.

Also worth mentioning is that engine ratings were reigned in in the late 60s, and motors were rated based on actual application with A/C and alternator and pumps hooked up, vs naked motor and flywheel ratings.

You can make a lot more with less, and I'd rather do that than have 1000 hp in a car I'm using as a daily driver.

 

[Grimace427]

You can make a lot more with less, and I'd rather do that than have 1000 hp in a car I'm using as a daily driver.

I agree with this. Would you rather have a car with a big HP number that can't put it to the ground or a faster car with less power but a chassis that can take full advantage of it.

 

[Trackaholic]

I don't know that the HP wars will ever copmletely end, but I do think we've reached a point where the gains will be minimal and focused on usability rather than a peak number.

Forced induction with turbos is clearly a preferred method, but IMO introduces too large a disconnect between the driver and engine due to throttle response and turbo lag. The next battle will be how to use electrical motors to reduce or eliminate that delay in response.

I think the Porsche 918, McLaren P1, and LaFerrari (and upcoming NSX) are showing where companies will be focusing in the future. From a purely engineering standpoint, an electric motor is a much more ideal drive source than an IC Engine. It has practically instant throttle response, makes peak torque at idle, and can close the current/torque/velocity loop much faster than an IC Engine can. Therefore, things like traction control and possibly stability control and torque vectoring can be much more responsive.

Picture the day when there are four individual motors driving each wheel. You can have practically instantly and infinitely variable torque splits to each individual wheel without a complex, clutch based geartrain. Of course there will be challenges, but the Tesla S has shown that a car with a powerful electric motor can be a very fun car to drive.

Of course I will always love the sounds of a normally aspirated IC Engine, so for me, the next 10 years may very well bring the end of my favorite type of propulsion (at least until the Twin Ion Engine). In any event, these will be some interesting times and I am excited to see what the future holds for the Mustang as well as the rest of the industry.

-T

 

[Dirk McGurck]

I don't know that the HP wars will ever copmletely end, but I do think we've reached a point where the gains will be minimal and focused on usability rather than a peak number.

Forced induction with turbos is clearly a preferred method, but IMO introduces too large a disconnect between the driver and engine due to throttle response and turbo lag. The next battle will be how to use electrical motors to reduce or eliminate that delay in response.

I think the Porsche 918, McLaren P1, and LaFerrari (and upcoming NSX) are showing where companies will be focusing in the future. From a purely engineering standpoint, an electric motor is a much more ideal drive source than an IC Engine. It has practically instant throttle response, makes peak torque at idle, and can close the current/torque/velocity loop much faster than an IC Engine can. Therefore, things like traction control and possibly stability control and torque vectoring can be much more responsive.

Picture the day when there are four individual motors driving each wheel. You can have practically instantly and infinitely variable torque splits to each individual wheel without a complex, clutch based geartrain. Of course there will be challenges, but the Tesla S has shown that a car with a powerful electric motor can be a very fun car to drive.

Of course I will always love the sounds of a normally aspirated IC Engine, so for me, the next 10 years may very well bring the end of my favorite type of propulsion (at least until the Twin Ion Engine). In any event, these will be some interesting times and I am excited to see what the future holds for the Mustang as well as the rest of the industry.

-T

And I will not partake.

 

[JonnyMustang]

Pure straight line performance is now on the back burner, where it should have been a long time ago IMO.

Is it though? SVT engineers even admitted that only a small percentage (less than 10%) would ever see the track. They were designing a track car while admitting that it would be wasted for the most part.

Main street drag is still why most people buy these cars. I would guess it's the reason there's so much negative reaction to the S550 on Ford's Facebook. People still want brute, stop-light racers, not corner carvers. Because, honestly, it's much easier to get your kicks on a main street drag or Sonic parking lot than it is to find some twisty highway. Semis, poor road conditions, blind corners, and more make it difficult to have fun on the road with a trackable car.

 

[Gman11Gt]

Is it though? SVT engineers even admitted that only a small percentage (less than 10%) would ever see the track. They were designing a track car while admitting that it would be wasted for the most part.

Main street drag is still why most people buy these cars. I would guess it's the reason there's so much negative reaction to the S550 on Ford's Facebook. People still want brute, stop-light racers, not corner carvers. Because, honestly, it's much easier to get your kicks on a main street drag or Sonic parking lot than it is to find some twisty highway. Semis, poor road conditions, blind corners, and more make it difficult to have fun on the road with a trackable car.

Well for heavy modification to get this new car under 10 seconds it might become an issue. However, I am betting it still will do a fine job regardless. It is when it is heavly modified to run 9's and under with a cage is when it becomes an issue with traction and patch contact. I am sure Ford racing or all the other OEM's and aftermarket companies will have a swop out for a live axle.

The Mustang is a cross section of folks that buy the cars. It stretches from the young to the old. The actual folks that want to modify the Mustang to these extreme levels is probably in the 10% range.

 

[scottpe]

The actual folks that want to modify the Mustang to these extreme levels is probably in the 10% range.

Remove the zero and that's probably closer to accurate...

 

[Free Agent]

Remove the zero and that's probably closer to accurate...

Then add a decimal point to the front of it to. ;)

But you are correct, let me expand as well.

Imagine 80,000 Mustangs sold a year. 1% of that would be 800 Mustangs in the 10's in the quarter. I'd say 80 total would be more accurate and that might be a stretch.

How many 2014 Mustang owners have their cars in the 10's or lower I wonder.

 

[Taneras]

Pure straight line performance is now on the back burner, where it should have been a long time ago IMO.

How many autocross events do you go to each year? How many does your average mustang driver go to? How many does your average modder go to?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to say that Ford should ignore handling. But if you think that straight line performance needs to go on the backburner go buy a FRS or BRZ.

 

[Grimace427]

How many autocross events do you go to each year? How many does your average mustang driver go to? How many does your average modder go to?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to say that Ford should ignore handling. But if you think that straight line performance needs to go on the backburner go buy a FRS or BRZ.

Regarding your top line, quite a few. More than you expect. Check out Vorshlag's blog on their 2011 5.0 Auto-x build and you will see just how serious some of those guys are.

Regarding your second line Ford is putting the handling first to steal those FRS/BRZ customers as well as BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Japanese car fans. There are hundreds of thousands of potential customers who would have never considered buying the Mustang because there were better handling cars available.

 

[91z28350]

What is up with all the anti drag racing rhetoric? I love drag racing, and after the Kenne Bell install, I am hoping to be in the mid-high 10's (haven't had a chance to track it yet since the install). If you wanna see how many people drag their cars, go to SVTP. If you think it is easy, let's see you try and launch a 650+ hp car with a 6 spd.

 

[Grimace427]

What is up with all the anti drag racing rhetoric? I love drag racing, and after the Kenne Bell install, I am hoping to be in the mid-high 10's (haven't had a chance to track it yet since the install). If you wanna see how many people drag their cars, go to SVTP. If you think it is easy, let's see you try and launch a 650+ hp car with a 6 spd.

The better question is, why do people think the IRS will prohibit them from being able to drag race? Did the Camaro fall off the face of the earth when it got an IRS? Is the Corvette a worthless turd when it lines up at the tree against a solid-axle Mustang?

 

[JonnyMustang]

Looking to the future, we're probably going to see smaller, lighter, lower horsepower with a focus on chassis. Let the racers buy whatever crate motor they want.

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