Who else is Manual or Bust?

[Norm Peterson]

The car is more than the sum of its parts - i am not buying it ...... list of forum statements about not buying if it is not twin turbo, not buying if they have a black front bumper, not buying if over 3800lbs, or 4000 lbs or 4200 lbs or.... not buying if auto, not buying if manual, not buying if......

Once you've figured out where your "deal-breaker lines" are, it's not hard at all to say 'no' and not only know that you mean it but why you mean it.

For me, the initial lack of a conventional 3-pedal MT makes it a hard no, even if the actual price ends up being far lower than what people are guessing it to be. It's more about the street driving having to be different (and noticing the differences more) than anything about the track driving.


Norm

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[Snakedriver]

They will sell everyone they make with the DCT.

 

[Norm Peterson]

They will sell everyone they make with the DCT.

Really a separate question.


Norm

 

[Silver Bullitt]

I'm a 3 pedal guy as well, but would be willing to give the DCT a try. There are lots of high performance cars using them, must be for a good reason.

And, after customer feedback, they are bringing back manuals too.

 

[Ninjak]

The whole DCT vs Manual almost feel like the whole Log vs IRS. Cars evolve. I think its about time the GT500 have a DCT. Should they offer the manual ? Probably. I would guess the 2021 will have a manual offer. But for me it's not a deal breaker at all. Driving with the paddles can be engaging as well. And yes, I have had every Mustang I ever own as a manual. Including my 65 which has the best manual ever built, the Toploader

 

[Norm Peterson]

Driving with the paddles can be engaging as well.

Perhaps . . . if you can get past the way you get it rolling from a dead stop being exactly like driving an automatic. Not such an easy thing if you don't ever drive automatics.

And yes, I have had every Mustang I ever own as a manual. Including my 65 which has the best manual ever built, the Toploader

Heh . . . if you ever get the opportunity to drive an older car with a Tremec TR3550/TKO installed into it you might change your mind. As I understand it, the 3550/TKO was an evolution from the Toploader. Plus that extra gear, and all of the shift linkage was internal to the case/tailhousing.


Norm

 

[Hack]

Driving with the paddles can be engaging as well.

So you've noticed that you have to be very careful and use the correct technique when you pull on the paddle? Oh, darn - missed a shift!

Hmm when I heel and toed on that paddle shift I revved the engine a little too much / not enough. I have to work on my paddle technique.

What about the paddles seems engaging to you?

 

[Fatguy]

I drove heavy trucks with heavy clutches and just thinking about a manual brings me back to those aches and pains. Those trucks are autos now and no regrets. There was no “car sympathy” with those transmissions and the trucks even drove smoother when you man handled them!

 

[Ninjak]

Ok Ok I get it. yes the heel/toe is gone, yes the I missed a gear is gone. Yes the slip the clutch is gone. But also so is the "I could have ran XXX time" if I DID NOT MISS 3rd or 4th and so on. Some of the best performance cars in the world have gone this route. I understand the manual allure, but I would not give up a great vehicle because of it.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Ok Ok I get it. yes the heel/toe is gone, yes the I missed a gear is gone. Yes the slip the clutch is gone. But also so is the "I could have ran XXX time" if I DID NOT MISS 3rd or 4th and so on. Some of the best performance cars in the world have gone this route.

With a conventional MT you can turn "I could have ran XXX time if I DID NOT MISS 3rd or 4th" around into resolving to do better on your next run. When the computers are doing almost all of the work, your performance as a driver hardly matters. Where's the incentive to make yourself get any better?

I understand the manual allure, but I would not give up a great vehicle because of it.

Defining what makes for a "great vehicle" is very much an individual assessment. People have different criteria, with different priorities among any that they may have in common.


Norm

 

[Khyber]

as someone who sims races in gt3 and gte race cars in VR... paddles are amazing...but those cars are too. A mustang that's possibly obtainable in real life being able to replicate that experience I get in VR with that kind of shifting is pretty badass to me because I'll never own a Ferrari, lambo, gt, audi, mclaren, etc... but nothing will replace the classic manual shifting gears. I'd rarely be able to afford to track it and auto may get boring driving it around town.

i'm just glad i don't have to be in a rush about this car and a manual 350 and 350R are still badass options...either way I want a shelby.

 

[protraxduner]

THANK GOD! for all you die hard manual guys, maybe give me a better chance at a better deal. In 1997 i was manual or nothing......I have been waiting for an auto/DCT since the GT500 was reintroduced. I get your argument, but really don't 'get' it.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

With a conventional MT you can turn "I could have ran XXX time if I DID NOT MISS 3rd or 4th" around into resolving to do better on your next run. When the computers are doing almost all of the work, your performance as a driver hardly matters. Where's the incentive to make yourself get any better?

You went sort of all-or-nothing ... like a DCT transmission means you can sit in the back seats

I'll quote my own, previous post - specifically the bold:

I've also had the opportunity to drive some cars with DCTs: GT-R, M3/4, various Porsches, even an F-car, on the street, on the track (full tilt), and I've got to say, it's pretty spectacular. It's definitely NOT an automatic - there's a really granular level of control, the car isn't "driving itself" when in full manual mode - the driver is making decisions with regard to gear selection, the driver is steering, the driver is choosing their line, the driver is modulating the brakes, the driver ... well, you get it

Just become one element is automated, doesn't mean the other, very manual parts of the process are suddenly inconsequential. To use your example, "If I would've carried a little more speed through that last turn I would've saved 0.5 second on that lap". There's tons of factors outside of missing a gear that lead to good/bad lap times.

Out of curiosity, do you disable your ABS at track events?

 

[Condor1970]

Honestly, I opted for the Manual for the shear pleasure of driving, since I don't drag race. However, I may consider an A10 in the future if driving the manual gets too hard on my knees, or if I want to take up drag racing. To be honest, I would prefer going to the track instead, and having a manual in that case is a lot more fun, imo.

 

[Hack]

Ok Ok I get it. yes the heel/toe is gone, yes the I missed a gear is gone. Yes the slip the clutch is gone. But also so is the "I could have ran XXX time" if I DID NOT MISS 3rd or 4th and so on. Some of the best performance cars in the world have gone this route. I understand the manual allure, but I would not give up a great vehicle because of it.

Understood. I personally wouldn't find the car to be great to drive when it does too much for me. I think if I can repeatedly hit a target it isn't as much fun as when the target is harder to hit. I still remember this one corner last summer when the rev matching was perfect and I thought to myself, "YES!"

Yes absolute times will be faster with a DCT, and that's important if you make a living winning races. Racers take every advantage they can and try to make driving as easy on the driver as possible. Racing drivers aren't trying to have fun - they are trying to win.

But I understand different people have different priorities. If you have less to do on track you will definitely be able to make faster or at least more consistently fast laps.

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