Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[Burkey]

What if the fire in a house garage? Or a parking garage. That behemoth won't fit in there. If it's in an open area the container really isn't needed. Let it burn itself out. It's the EV fires in a structure that will be the problem. Maybe they can innovate a blanket to wrap the car and smother it with inert gasses.

I guess my point was that trying to solve new problems with old technology might not always be the best path. Necessity is the mother of invention.

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[Burkey]

Florida utility company implodes its last coal-powered plant (msn.com)

Hello; So the last coal fired power plant in Florida is history while China is still building new ones and putting them online.

Back to the swimming pool analogy of dividing the pool into a no-pee zone and a pee in the pool zone by stringing a rope across.

While at the same time a volcano eruption may negate all of Floridas actions.

Obviously the answer is to actually teach people to stop pissing in the pool, rather than just deciding it’s ok for everyone to piss in the pool because the system isn’t working properly.

 

[Burkey]

And here‘s more about China and their coal plants…

“From a climate perspective, the ideal scenario would be for China to shut down all of its coal-fired power plants and switch over to clean energy full stop. In reality, China’s energy economy is a massive ship that cannot turn on a dime. The shift toward renewables is happening: China’s Paris commitment includes a promise to install 800 gigawatts to 1,000 gigawatts of new renewable capacity by 2030, an amount equivalent to the capacity of the entire U.S. electricity system.1 While China and the United States have roughly the same land mass, however, China has 1.3 billion people to the United States’ 325 million.2 It needs an electricity system that is much larger, so adding the renewable equivalent of one entire U.S. electricity system is not enough to replace coal in the near to medium term. To bridge the gap, China is rolling out new technologies to drastically reduce local air pollution and climate emissions from the nation’s remaining coal plants.”

Full article here:
https://www.americanprogress.org/is...32141/everything-think-know-coal-china-wrong/

 

[CEHollier]

I guess my point was that trying to solve new problems with old technology might not always be the best path. Necessity is the mother of invention.

I'm all for innovation. My thought is will home owners policies increase for EV owners as these Chernobyl's on four wheels ignite in peoples garages. If it starts costing insurance companies significant money they will target home owners with EV's for rate increases.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Wonder if there were any EVs in the underground parking for that condo that collapsed in Florida.

 

[sk47]

And here‘s more about China and their coal plants…

“From a climate perspective, the ideal scenario would be for China to shut down all of its coal-fired power plants and switch over to clean energy full stop. In reality, China’s energy economy is a massive ship that cannot turn on a dime. The shift toward renewables is happening: China’s Paris commitment includes a promise to install 800 gigawatts to 1,000 gigawatts of new renewable capacity by 2030, an amount equivalent to the capacity of the entire U.S. electricity system.1 While China and the United States have roughly the same land mass, however, China has 1.3 billion people to the United States’ 325 million.2 It needs an electricity system that is much larger, so adding the renewable equivalent of one entire U.S. electricity system is not enough to replace coal in the near to medium term. To bridge the gap, China is rolling out new technologies to drastically reduce local air pollution and climate emissions from the nation’s remaining coal plants.”

Full article here:
https://www.americanprogress.org/is...32141/everything-think-know-coal-china-wrong/

Hello; The analogy of the swimming pool is that regardless of the excuses made for China's behavior the brand new coal fired power plants will be spewing into the air of all of us. The air is moving all over the planet. What they may be gaining for the planets air on one hand they take away with the new coal fired power plants.
The state of Florida just did away with it's last coal plant with plans to do renewables in the former site. Yet you persist in defending china and not a kind word for the state of Florida.

 

[Burkey]

Hello; The analogy of the swimming pool is that regardless of the excuses made for China's behavior the brand new coal fired power plants will be spewing into the air of all of us. The air is moving all over the planet. What they may be gaining for the planets air on one hand they take away with the new coal fired power plants.
The state of Florida just did away with it's last coal plant with plans to do renewables in the former site. Yet you persist in defending china and not a kind word for the state of Florida.

I don’t recall saying a damn thing about Florida…
Maybe go read the article I linked and get back to me when you’ve finished, instead of simply repeating talking points that you’ve heard.

Do you happen to know what the emissions targets are for both the US and China, under the Paris agreement?

Do you understand that carbon neutral isn’t the same as zero carbon?

 

[Burkey]

Looks very neutral.

So you’re wanting to point the finger at a nation of quadruple the population of the US because they emit double the CO2?
I thought we’d been through this before.

Which part of the equation don’t you get?
I like how the chart stops at 2040, only 20 years before China has agreed to reach carbon neutral… it‘s almost as if the chart was cleverly manipulated to make the reader reach a certain conclusion about China.

Now, whether they actually reach those proposed targets is a separate matter. We can really only take them at their word. So far, they appear to be on track according to most sources.

I‘ll grab a few more quotes because it’s become apparent that people just won’t click on links.

“The shift toward renewables is happening: China’s Paris commitment includes a promise to install 800 gigawatts to 1,000 gigawatts of new renewable capacity by 2030, an amount equivalent to the capacity of the entire U.S. electricity system.1 While China and the United States have roughly the same land mass, however, China has 1.3 billion people to the United States’ 325 million.2 It needs an electricity system that is much larger, so adding the renewable equivalent of one entire U.S. electricity system is not enough to replace coal in the near to medium term. To bridge the gap, China is rolling out new technologies to drastically reduce local air pollution and climate emissions from the nation’s remaining coal plants.”

And this which is particularly pertinent to any discussion around China:


“This issue brief covers three things American observers need to understand about coal in China:

1. China’s new coal-fired power plants are cleaner than anything operating in the United States.
2. China’s emissions standards for conventional air pollutants from coal-fired power plants are stricter than the comparable U.S. standards.
3. Demand for coal-fired power is falling so quickly in China that the nation cannot support its existing fleet. Many of the coal-fired power plants that skeptics point to as evidence against a Chinese energy transformation are actually white elephants that Chinese leaders are already targeting in a wave of forced plant closures.”

 

[sk47]

I don’t recall saying a damn thing about Florida…
Maybe go read the article I linked and get back to me when you’ve finished, instead of simply repeating talking points that you’ve heard.

Do you happen to know what the emissions targets are for both the US and China, under the Paris agreement?

Do you understand that carbon neutral isn’t the same as zero carbon?

Hello; Yes you did not say anything about Florida, that was my point. Not a hard concept for most of us.

 

[Burkey]

Hello; Yes you did not say anything about Florida, that was my point. Not a hard concept for most of us.

What would you like to say about Florida?

 

[sk47]

So you’re wanting to point the finger at a nation of quadruple the population of the US because they emit double the CO2?
I thought we’d been through this before.
/QUOTE]


Hello; Yes we did go thru this before and you ignored the hard parts and did not reply to them. We get your notion that things ought to be based on a per-capita standard on the one hand and go on about how reducing the total amount of CO2 is key to saving us all from half a degree of warming in maybe 50 years.

Either the total amount of emissions is most important or being fair on an individual standard is most important. Pardon me I forget you somehow think you can have it both ways. Or to put it another way as I did before. China is currently having greater emissions than the USA. If they are allowed to catch up on a per capita basis that suggests you are in favor of them emitting four times as much as the do now. That was one of the points you ignored before by the way.

How about my country making a promise the same as China's. That if we can increase pollution for ten or so years we will then be very clean in all we do. That is the concept is it not?

 

[CEHollier]

Obviously the answer is to actually teach people to stop pissing in the pool, rather than just deciding it’s ok for everyone to piss in the pool because the system isn’t working properly.

The point of the pool analogy is it is not ok to piss in the pool. Apply the same standard to everyone. We all share the same atmosphere. What one country does affects us all. This could be done through tariffs. It would also level the manufacturing playing field.

 

[Burkey]

A goal of zero just seems like a waste for much higher taxes and what we have to give up to get there. I understand you disagree but I just don’t want to sacrifice my freedom for almost nothing.

I’m all for a debate as to what, if anything should be done about it, provided that the people involved in the debate actually understand the cause and the consequences.

If you understand the consequences and decide that it doesn’t bother you, that’s fine. Each of us has a choice to make. But, to deny that there’s a problem, or how that problem is coming about, and then demanding that people listen to THAT point of view, well…..that’s just ridiculous.

That was the intention of the thread. To highlight the fact that many people simply don’t understand the proposition, and until they do, no right-minded government has any business listening to their opinions, or more specificall, their opinions that aren’t backed by the evidence.

The point of the pool analogy is it is not ok to piss in the pool. Apply the same standard to everyone. We all share the same atmosphere. What one country does affects us all. This could be done through tariffs. It would also level the manufacturing playing field.

i agree. Now go ask the US government why your coal fired power stations are so far behind the rest of the world…… or did you not read the link I shared earlier?

Don’t panic, Australia is a fucking disaster too. I’m not taking cheap shots here. In fact, we are probably doing worse than you guys (depending on the metrics being employed)

 

[CEHollier]

or did you not read the link I shared earlier?

I was only addressing the pool analogy post.

 

[CEHollier]

I don’t think many people will deny we are burning the string at both ends. Where I get lost is with short term projections and fear mongering. When there is a forest fire or a heat wave in the west, our media drills green house effect as the cause.

The climate of this planet is changing and will always change. The Redwood study I link shows extreme climate deviations is very normal. We are most likely upwardly adjusting the trend line of normal climate deviation though our emissions. Be that 1 degree or 10 degree I don’t know. Chances are though our climate will never hit some massive tipping point which it will be irreversible.

I just don’t like climate being made such a large issue when there are massive other issues. Science might not be dead when it comes to green house effect or global warming or climate change it sure has been sensationalized for an agenda. I think we can all admit climate change is very profitable.

If the monetary incentives were taken out of climate change we would see the real science. For now climate change in my opinion is exploited for profit, power, and control.

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