Darrinm03
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #1
So with people receiving their mustangs now, we all know that they come infested with mod bugs. Some will mod, some won't, but some of those that won't, won't because of information they have heard and believe to be truthful. If you already know this information then good for you, pass your knowledge along. However. Those that don't know, or know incorrect info, please read the facts below. These are gathered from former Ford senior techs, and other official sources, so there's no opinion or B.S. Here, I wouldn't do that with someone's $40K prized possession. If you do or don't decide to mod until your warranty is completely up to you, but make that decision an informed one.
Nearly everyone has heard about someone who has taken a vehicle that has been modified with aftermarket parts to a dealer for warranty service, only to have the dealer refuse to cover the defective items. The dealer usually states that because of the aftermarket parts the warranty is void, without even attempting to determine whether the aftermarket part caused the problem.
This is illegal.
Vehicle manufacturers are not allowed to void the vehicle warranty just because aftermarket parts are on the vehicle. To better understand this problem it is best to know the differences between the two types of new car warranties and the two types of emission warranties.
When a vehicle is purchased new and the owner is protected against the faults that may occur by an expressed warranty - an offer by the manufacturer to assume the responsibility for problems with predetermined parts during a stated period of time. Beyond the expressed warranty, the vehicle manufacturer is often held responsible for further implied warranties. These state that a manufactured product should meet certain standards. However, in both cases, the mere presence of aftermarket parts doesn't void the warranty.
There are also two emission warranties (defect and performance) required under the clean air act. The defect warranty requires the manufacturer to produce a vehicle which, at the time of sale, is free of defects that would cause it to not meet the required emission levels for it's useful life as defined in the law. The performance warranty implies a vehicle must maintain certain levels of emission performance over it's useful life. If the vehicle fails to meet the performance warranty requirements, the manufacturer must make repairs at no cost to the owner, even if an aftermarket part is directly responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer cannot void the performance warranty. This protection is the result of a parts self - certification program developed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA).
In cases where such a failed aftermarket part is responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer must arrange a settlement with the consumer, but by law the new - vehicle warranty is not voided.
Overall, the laws governing warranties are very clear. The only time a new vehicle warranty can be voided is if an aftermarket part has been installed and it can be proven that it is responsible for an emission warranty claim. However, a vehicle manufacturer or dealership cannot void an entire warranty simply because an an aftermarket equipment has been installed on a vehicle.
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act:
According to the Report of the House of Representatives which accompanied the law (House Report No. 93-1197, 93d Cong 2d Sess.) the Magnuson–Moss act was enacted by Congress in response to the widespread misuse by merchants of express warranties and disclaimers. The legislative history indicates that the purpose of the Act is to make warranties on consumer products more readily understood and enforceable and to provide the Federal Trade Commission with means to better protect consumers.
Consumer products are not required to have warranties, but if one is given, it must comply with the Magnuson–Moss Act.
Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty. This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions.
"Tie-In Sales" Provisions:
Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.
In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.
While you cannot use a tie-in sales provision, your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product. The following is an example of a permissible provision that excludes coverage of such things.
While necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company, we recommend that you use only authorized AudioMundo dealers. Improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair voids this warranty.
Although tie-in sales provisions generally are not allowed, you can include such a provision in your warranty if you can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Federal Trade Commission that your product will not work properly without a specified item or service. If you believe that this is the case, you should contact the warranty staff of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection for information on how to apply for a waiver of the tie-in sales prohibition.
Act May Affect Warranty Disputes:
Two other features of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act are also important to warrantors. First, the Act makes it easier for consumers to take an unresolved warranty problem to court. Second, it encourages companies to use a less formal, and therefore less costly, alternative to legal proceedings. Such alternatives, known as dispute resolution mechanisms, often can be used to settle warranty complaints before they reach litigation.
Consumer Lawsuits:
The Act makes it easier for purchasers to sue for breach of warranty by making breach of warranty a violation of federal law, and by allowing consumers to recover court costs and reasonable attorneys' fees. This means that if you lose a lawsuit for breach of either a written or an implied warranty, you may have to pay the customer's costs for bringing the suit, including lawyer's fees.
Because of the stringent federal jurisdictional requirements under the Act, most Magnuson-Moss lawsuits are brought in state court. However, major cases involving many consumers can be brought in federal court as class action suits under the Act.
Sooooo does this mean I can or can't tune my Coyote engine? Here you go:
"There have been many questions raised, both lately and in the past, as to what Ford would do to the powertrain warranty if someone were to tune a Coyote engine. Well, since I am in the unique position of having been trained by Ford, I can provide some insight.
First off- Ford will not simply cancel your warranty the moment you plug in a tuner and upload a tune. if the failure cannot be related to a tune (things like a sensor outage or timing chain noise) Ford would simply perform the required testing and replace any required parts to correct the issue.
Now, if the failure could be caused by a tune issue, the dealer would have to first establish the car was tuned, then point to the cause of the failure to being the tune. IF AND ONLY IF FORD CAN SHOW THE FAILURE WAS CAUSED BY THE TUNE, COULD THEY DENY WARRANTY COVERAGE. Meaning, if your car is tuned and you tear up a piston from detonation, you are going to have to foot the bill. Don't be surprised at all that your car is even tagged with a powertrain warranty cancelation when you pick it up.
How is the dealer going to tell?
There is a Peramiter ID called FLASHEVNT that keeps track of how many times the PCM is flashed (or tuned). Your car came from the factory with this reading "1". If there was warranty work done that would require a tune from Ford, this number would go up the amout of times it had been reprogrammed at the dealer and noted in the cars maintenance documentation. It will also go up every time you flash or tune your PCM from your nifty handheld. There is no way to reduce this number, and no way to get around it. Yeah, I know there are tuners out there that claim to have a "no footprint" tune. But they aren't to be trusted"
There you have it. If you've stuck with me this far I thank you and am happy my research/experience has reached someone. No opinions, just facts compiled for you all because I know you are curious like I was, and your dollar is worth as much as my dollar. Now, for my opinion....I modded my car inside the warranty and had work done to replace a peeling radio stack screen on my shaker, and my mustang illuminated door sill panel went out. Both repaired, no questions asked and even got compliments on my car when I picked it up.
Mod at your own risk, at least your better informed:ford:
Nearly everyone has heard about someone who has taken a vehicle that has been modified with aftermarket parts to a dealer for warranty service, only to have the dealer refuse to cover the defective items. The dealer usually states that because of the aftermarket parts the warranty is void, without even attempting to determine whether the aftermarket part caused the problem.
This is illegal.
Vehicle manufacturers are not allowed to void the vehicle warranty just because aftermarket parts are on the vehicle. To better understand this problem it is best to know the differences between the two types of new car warranties and the two types of emission warranties.
When a vehicle is purchased new and the owner is protected against the faults that may occur by an expressed warranty - an offer by the manufacturer to assume the responsibility for problems with predetermined parts during a stated period of time. Beyond the expressed warranty, the vehicle manufacturer is often held responsible for further implied warranties. These state that a manufactured product should meet certain standards. However, in both cases, the mere presence of aftermarket parts doesn't void the warranty.
There are also two emission warranties (defect and performance) required under the clean air act. The defect warranty requires the manufacturer to produce a vehicle which, at the time of sale, is free of defects that would cause it to not meet the required emission levels for it's useful life as defined in the law. The performance warranty implies a vehicle must maintain certain levels of emission performance over it's useful life. If the vehicle fails to meet the performance warranty requirements, the manufacturer must make repairs at no cost to the owner, even if an aftermarket part is directly responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer cannot void the performance warranty. This protection is the result of a parts self - certification program developed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA).
In cases where such a failed aftermarket part is responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer must arrange a settlement with the consumer, but by law the new - vehicle warranty is not voided.
Overall, the laws governing warranties are very clear. The only time a new vehicle warranty can be voided is if an aftermarket part has been installed and it can be proven that it is responsible for an emission warranty claim. However, a vehicle manufacturer or dealership cannot void an entire warranty simply because an an aftermarket equipment has been installed on a vehicle.
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act:
According to the Report of the House of Representatives which accompanied the law (House Report No. 93-1197, 93d Cong 2d Sess.) the Magnuson–Moss act was enacted by Congress in response to the widespread misuse by merchants of express warranties and disclaimers. The legislative history indicates that the purpose of the Act is to make warranties on consumer products more readily understood and enforceable and to provide the Federal Trade Commission with means to better protect consumers.
Consumer products are not required to have warranties, but if one is given, it must comply with the Magnuson–Moss Act.
Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty. This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions.
"Tie-In Sales" Provisions:
Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.
In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.
While you cannot use a tie-in sales provision, your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product. The following is an example of a permissible provision that excludes coverage of such things.
While necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company, we recommend that you use only authorized AudioMundo dealers. Improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair voids this warranty.
Although tie-in sales provisions generally are not allowed, you can include such a provision in your warranty if you can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Federal Trade Commission that your product will not work properly without a specified item or service. If you believe that this is the case, you should contact the warranty staff of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection for information on how to apply for a waiver of the tie-in sales prohibition.
Act May Affect Warranty Disputes:
Two other features of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act are also important to warrantors. First, the Act makes it easier for consumers to take an unresolved warranty problem to court. Second, it encourages companies to use a less formal, and therefore less costly, alternative to legal proceedings. Such alternatives, known as dispute resolution mechanisms, often can be used to settle warranty complaints before they reach litigation.
Consumer Lawsuits:
The Act makes it easier for purchasers to sue for breach of warranty by making breach of warranty a violation of federal law, and by allowing consumers to recover court costs and reasonable attorneys' fees. This means that if you lose a lawsuit for breach of either a written or an implied warranty, you may have to pay the customer's costs for bringing the suit, including lawyer's fees.
Because of the stringent federal jurisdictional requirements under the Act, most Magnuson-Moss lawsuits are brought in state court. However, major cases involving many consumers can be brought in federal court as class action suits under the Act.
Sooooo does this mean I can or can't tune my Coyote engine? Here you go:
"There have been many questions raised, both lately and in the past, as to what Ford would do to the powertrain warranty if someone were to tune a Coyote engine. Well, since I am in the unique position of having been trained by Ford, I can provide some insight.
First off- Ford will not simply cancel your warranty the moment you plug in a tuner and upload a tune. if the failure cannot be related to a tune (things like a sensor outage or timing chain noise) Ford would simply perform the required testing and replace any required parts to correct the issue.
Now, if the failure could be caused by a tune issue, the dealer would have to first establish the car was tuned, then point to the cause of the failure to being the tune. IF AND ONLY IF FORD CAN SHOW THE FAILURE WAS CAUSED BY THE TUNE, COULD THEY DENY WARRANTY COVERAGE. Meaning, if your car is tuned and you tear up a piston from detonation, you are going to have to foot the bill. Don't be surprised at all that your car is even tagged with a powertrain warranty cancelation when you pick it up.
How is the dealer going to tell?
There is a Peramiter ID called FLASHEVNT that keeps track of how many times the PCM is flashed (or tuned). Your car came from the factory with this reading "1". If there was warranty work done that would require a tune from Ford, this number would go up the amout of times it had been reprogrammed at the dealer and noted in the cars maintenance documentation. It will also go up every time you flash or tune your PCM from your nifty handheld. There is no way to reduce this number, and no way to get around it. Yeah, I know there are tuners out there that claim to have a "no footprint" tune. But they aren't to be trusted"
There you have it. If you've stuck with me this far I thank you and am happy my research/experience has reached someone. No opinions, just facts compiled for you all because I know you are curious like I was, and your dollar is worth as much as my dollar. Now, for my opinion....I modded my car inside the warranty and had work done to replace a peeling radio stack screen on my shaker, and my mustang illuminated door sill panel went out. Both repaired, no questions asked and even got compliments on my car when I picked it up.
Mod at your own risk, at least your better informed:ford:
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