Non-disclosure of Mach 1 engine replacement by Dealer

[22GBMach1]

Good afternoon,

I wanted to seek your recommendations/advice and any experience any of you might have had with an engine replacement on a new vehicle.

I purchased my new 22 GB Mach1 HP from a Columbus dealer about 100 miles away on March 1st. Salesman stated the car was perfect with no issues and it had been kept on the showroom floor since they received the car. The car had 10 miles on the odometer. The car looked good although my detailer via paint correction later discovered some scratches and small dings with most able to be corrected.

Fast forward a month now with 300 miles on the car, I noticed the steering wheel is off center. Call local dealer here who proceeds to advise me and ask whether I am aware the car had the engine replaced by the Columbus Ford dealer. The local dealer here states he cant take the car in for service for the steering wheel and alignment because other dealer removed the subframe during the engine replacement and car would need returned there. Well thats least of my worries at this point eh. Local dealer states that the report in Ford service records ref the engine replacement seems to be incomplete but he can see that subframe removed and long block replaced due to internal damage found. Local dealer agreed to provide service report copy to me and I will pickup shortly. When I called Columbus salesman I dealt with he claimed he had no knowledge of an engine replacement. He advised he would talk with the new car sales manager. I assume I will not receive a call back.

Have any of you experienced dealing with an engine replacement on a new car that was not disclosed by the dealer. I have to believe this devalues the car like a Mach1 greatly and so is this buyer beware or do I have options via civil action.

Any help will be appreciated. Thanks, Mike

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[Ctodd1]

Was the car sold to you is new or used?

 

[Skye]

Sorry to hear what you have discovered.

A previous thread asked new owners what their odometer reading was at pick-up. A general average was 8 mi / 12.8 km. Reads like something might have happened in the first drive at the dealer, almost immediately off the truck or during checkout.

If they had not sold the car to anyone else before, conceivably it could still be sold as new. But ethics...and what the state disclosure laws are for Ohio and car sales.

Oasis reports come to mind, and if one might bring any more details, along with a sit-down involving the GM. Open case with Ford? As it involves potential legal matters, I'd keep my cards close.

 

[IPOGT]

Sorry to hear what you have discovered.

A previous thread asked new owners what their odometer reading was at pick-up. A general average was 8 mi / 12.8 km. Reads like something might have happened in the first drive at the dealer, off the truck or during checkout.

I had to think about how they sold the car as new. If they had not sold the car to anyone, conceivably it could still be sold as new. But ethics...

Oasis reports come to mind, and if one might shed any more details, along with a sit-down involving the GM.

I once came upon a dispute where a kid who worked at a car dealership had abused a brand new Trans Am. I could see how that could make its way unknowingly to the showroom floor. The kid figured, who cares it’s under warranty.. What was amazing was that the dealer plate which was just on magnets held on tightly.
Man, those T/A’s were quick!

 

[22GBMach1]

Car was sold as new

 

[Highvolts]

Just curious, which Columbus dealer? (Im near Columbus)

 

[IPOGT]

I’d contact Ford customer relations first. Sorry that happened. See what they offer. I’m certain that will get escalated.

 

[22GBMach1]

Highvolts -Not sure what forum rules are ref identifying dealers. Maybe a moderator could advise.

 

[Mike Pfeifer]

I can’t speak on the value of a car with a replaced engine, but I do know that new cars with repair work done prior to first sale and registration are a special case. From what I was told as a tech at a dealer is that in order to be sold as a new car, any part that is replaced prior to first sale must be replaced with a new part, NOT a remanufactured part. Some manufacturers make it complicated for the parts department to order new parts, like an engine, but there is a process. It also would not surprise me if not a single person at the dealer knows that is how it works. If you get hold of the repair info and can confirm a reman engine was installed, you will have a case for sure.

 

[sakman84]

The jurisdiction where you live will determine what the rules are for you. In general they have to disclose once the repair exceeds 3-6% of value.

https://www.autoblog.com/2015/12/06..._pMQwhAiCLqcBgFOXI74BGnp2LZX0Kw3tvvS9SoTlFlu9


Believe it or not, dealers have been doing repairs on cars and selling them as "new" for years. A case with BMW went pretty far in the US court system. The vehicle was damaged during transit and was entirely repainted. Then the car was sold as "new". The customer discovered this and went to court ended up winning 2 million against BMW.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...ion-bmw/e6c917e2-1028-4c82-b8b0-e09b56e61779/

This was common practice, making repairs and still selling it as new. Around the early 2000s there were several cases of this nature and states started setting ground rules if they hadn't already.

For example in CA If the repairs cost more than $500 or 3% of the vehicle’s value, the dealer is required by law to tell you. Dealers are exempt from voluntarily telling you about repairs that cost less than $500 or 3% of the vehicle’s value.
https://www.californiaconsumerattorneys.com/repaired-new-cars

In North Carolina they have to disclose if it is 5% of MSRP.
https://ncdoj.gov/protecting-consumers/automobiles/disclosing-car-damage/

I'd be absolutely furious in your position.

 

[Blwnsmoke]

This happens... a defective engine comes with the brand new car and it's noticed at the dealer prior to sale. Warranty replaces motor.. dealer does not have to disclose this.

I saw a brand new gt500 come off the transport truck and the engine was ticking... new motor went in.

 

[ZXMustang]

Yeah with new cars its sticky with presale issues and disclosure. Thats why carfax and autocheck exist for used cars. But for new, its hit or miss if anyone is going to tell you anything. Most of the managers/salesman dont know if anything has been fixed anyway. When the car comes off the trailer and is PDI'd by the service department, thats where most issues are caught and handled. The car never makes it out of PDI before its repaired and the sales teams never really know about it. Unless its something big or way off the wall like a car was crashed before it got there from transport or something people would tell eachother about.

Personally I'd just make sure its been brought up and call Ford for sure. Then you have some recourse if there are any related issues like electrical gremilns or whatnot from careless techs putting in a new motor. But all in all, they are capable and have tons of support to do long block changes. Its up to the tech though, to make sure all the little wireclips and nuts/bolts are put back correctly. That would be my issue. Aside from that, the car will most likely be fine and you wont see that on any carfax or autocheck. It will show up on oasis at any Ford dealer. So make sure you sell/trade it to another brand dealer.

 

[Kidroc2133]

Worked for a rail company before. Not only is your brand new car having problems straight from the factory but I bet most didn't know that when a lot of the new cars are shipped using auto rack railcars, the homeless break in the railcars, bust out the windows and they will completely destroy the inside of are car not just with trash but all bodily fluids.

 

[sakman84]

Yeah with new cars its sticky with presale issues and disclosure. Thats why carfax and autocheck exist for used cars. But for new, its hit or miss if anyone is going to tell you anything. Most of the managers/salesman dont know if anything has been fixed anyway. When the car comes off the trailer and is PDI'd by the service department, thats where most issues are caught and handled. The car never makes it out of PDI before its repaired and the sales teams never really know about it. Unless its something big or way off the wall like a car was crashed before it got there from transport or something people would tell eachother about.

Personally I'd just make sure its been brought up and call Ford for sure. Then you have some recourse if there are any related issues like electrical gremilns or whatnot from careless techs putting in a new motor. But all in all, they are capable and have tons of support to do long block changes. Its up to the tech though, to make sure all the little wireclips and nuts/bolts are put back correctly. That would be my issue. Aside from that, the car will most likely be fine and you wont see that on any carfax or autocheck. It will show up on oasis at any Ford dealer. So make sure you sell/trade it to another brand dealer.

^ This cant be emphasized enough, sales side of the dealer likely had no clue about it. Very accurate post.

For some buyers they will not care, its the same warranty as any other new Ford car after all.

Others, and this is the camp I fall into, is when I buy "NEW" it means bought with the parts it was assembled with at the factory.

One can argue its functionally the same, and the warranty is the same, same parts installed by Ford technicians. I get the argument, but surely the customer should be informed.

Also for certain folks, who are collector minded, having the original engine with the chassis is a big deal in that world. Not saying it is applicable here, but I think this is where that sentiment comes from.

 

[mattlqx]

Couple thoughts:

"New" is simply a car that has never been titled. That's all it means legally.

One dealer pushing off responsibility seems weird but typical. I'd definitely get Ford corporate involved to tell whatever dealer you want to work with that they'll cover the warranty costs. At the end of the day, they're paying the bill so it shouldn't matter which dealer did the first repair.

It's an unfortunate case of Ford shipping a bad vehicle from the factory. QC fail sounds like.

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