MAP Street Intercooler & now Race Intercooler Torture Tests

[Glenn G]

Last night I decided to do a datalog of the performance of my MAP intercooler under the most stressful conditions it sees.

A 3rd gear pull is just over way too fast for good data, the CATs barely getting 12 degrees above ambient and it can be a bit dangerous dropping to 50mph on an unlimited autobahn where slow traffic does around 80.

This a a 5th gear pull from ~3000 to 6000 rpm or ~75 to 139mph. Do not try this outside of Germany, you'll likely be arrested

Ambient temperature was 72 degrees with 90% humidity, (got to over 100% near the end because it started raining.)
max boost targetwas ~24psi which begins slowly dropping off from 5300 rpm down to 22.6 at 6000 rpm as the turbo falls out of it's efficiency band.

The Charge air temps started at 82.7 F, after about 35 minutes of hard driving or ~11 degrees above ambient, which is very good! temps drop slightly before climbing to a max of 111 (39 F above ambient) at my shift to 6th, at this point the temps settle and dos not rise as I keep my foot planted to ~145 mph where I had to let off due to traffic and the fact that it had started absolutely pouring rain ending my fun for the night.

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[TheLion]

Last night I decided to do a datalog of the performance of my MAP intercooler under the most stressful conditions it sees.

A 3rd gear pull is just over way too fast for good data, the CATs barely getting 12 degrees above ambient and it can be a bit dangerous dropping to 50mph on an unlimited autobahn where slow traffic does around 80.

This a a 5th gear pull from ~3000 to 6000 rpm or ~75 to 139mph. Do not try this outside of Germany, you'll likely be arrested

Ambient temperature was 72 degrees with 90% humidity, (got to over 100% near the end because it started raining.)
max boost targetwas ~24psi which begins slowly dropping off from 5300 rpm down to 22.6 at 6000 rpm as the turbo falls out of it's efficiency band.

The Charge air temps started at 82.7 F, after about 35 minutes of hard driving or ~11 degrees above ambient, which is very good! temps drop slightly before climbing to a max of 111 (39 F above ambient) at my shift to 6th, at this point the temps settle and dos not rise as I keep my foot planted to ~145 mph where I had to let off due to traffic and the fact that it had started absolutely pouring rain ending my fun for the night.

Excellent data. It would be really interesting to see what the factory IC would do under those conditions. From the dyno data, I would expect chage temps in the 170~200F range, which is completely unacceptable to making good power.

You mentioned MAP Street core, is this the core your referencing?: https://www.maperformance.com/produ...ler-upgrade-2015-ford-mustang-ecoboost-ebm-ic

If a Stage 1 core does that well (CP-e, MAP, Injen are all nearly identical in performance given the similarity in design), it would be interesting to see what a full size Levels Street cores does...

Levels Race Core 20x17x3.5 = 1190 in^3
Levels Street Core 20x14x3.5 = 980 in^3
Injen FM9200i 21x5.75x5.75 = 694 in^3
CP-e Delta 22x5x6.5 = 715 in^3
Mishimoto 21x5.75x5.35 = 646 in^3
MAP Street AxBxC= xxx in^3
SpeedFactory IC AxBxC= xxx in^3

 

[MAPerformance]

Excellent data. It would be really interesting to see what the factory IC would do under those conditions. From the dyno data, I would expect chage temps in the 170~200F range, which is completely unacceptable to making good power.

You mentioned MAP Street core, is this the core your referencing?: https://www.maperformance.com/produ...ler-upgrade-2015-ford-mustang-ecoboost-ebm-ic

If a Stage 1 core does that well (CP-e, MAP, Injen are all nearly identical in performance given the similarity in design), it would be interesting to see what a full size Levels Street cores does...

Levels Race Core 20x17x3.5 = 1190 in^3
Levels Street Core 20x14x3.5 = 980 in^3
Injen FM9200i 21x5.75x5.75 = 694 in^3
CP-e Delta 22x5x6.5 = 715 in^3
Mishimoto 21x5.75x5.35 = 646 in^3
MAP Street AxBxC= xxx in^3
SpeedFactory IC AxBxC= xxx in^3

MAP Street
20x6x5 Core = 600in^3
https://www.maperformance.com/produ...ler-upgrade-2015-ford-mustang-ecoboost-ebm-ic
;)

MAP Race
22x10x4.5 Core = 990in^3
https://www.maperformance.com/produ...cooler-2015-ford-ecoboost-mustang-map-ebm-rik


That is a fantastic test btw and thank you for posting such great and fun results!

-Adam

 

[Glenn G]

MAP Street
20x6x5 Core = 600in^3
https://www.maperformance.com/produ...ler-upgrade-2015-ford-mustang-ecoboost-ebm-ic
;)

MAP Race
22x10x4.5 Core = 990in^3
https://www.maperformance.com/produ...cooler-2015-ford-ecoboost-mustang-map-ebm-rik


That is a fantastic test btw and thank you for posting such great and fun results!

-Adam

My pleasure Adam. feel free to use that image if you'd like. I couldn't get the charge temp above 111F no matter how hard I flogged it. If you would like an impartial test of the race core, you know where to send it. Every thing else on my car is from MAP. May as well keep it that way.

 

[MAPerformance]

My pleasure Adam. feel free to use that image if you'd like. I couldn't get the charge temp above 111F no matter how hard I flogged it. If you would like an impartial test of the race core, you know where to send it. Every thing else on my car is from MAP. May as well keep it that way.

I'll send you a PM but I'd love to get some more of them out in the wild!

 

[Glenn G]

Excellent data. It would be really interesting to see what the factory IC would do under those conditions. From the dyno data, I would expect chage temps in the 170~200F range, which is completely unacceptable to making good power.

You mentioned MAP Street core, is this the core your referencing?: https://www.maperformance.com/produ...ler-upgrade-2015-ford-mustang-ecoboost-ebm-ic

If a Stage 1 core does that well (CP-e, MAP, Injen are all nearly identical in performance given the similarity in design), it would be interesting to see what a full size Levels Street cores does...

Levels Race Core 20x17x3.5 = 1190 in^3
Levels Street Core 20x14x3.5 = 980 in^3
Injen FM9200i 21x5.75x5.75 = 694 in^3
CP-e Delta 22x5x6.5 = 715 in^3
Mishimoto 21x5.75x5.35 = 646 in^3
MAP Street AxBxC= xxx in^3
SpeedFactory IC AxBxC= xxx in^3

I can tell you on the stock IC, I could feel the car pulling power well before the top of 5th but that's not even the full story. This intercooler recovers in a minute or less of regular driving. It's basically ready to go after I decelerate to do another pull. The stock IC would take ages to come down in temps. I wish I had saved a log!

 

[juan_tony1]

Last night I decided to do a datalog of the performance of my MAP intercooler under the most stressful conditions it sees.

A 3rd gear pull is just over way too fast for good data, the CATs barely getting 12 degrees above ambient and it can be a bit dangerous dropping to 50mph on an unlimited autobahn where slow traffic does around 80.

This a a 5th gear pull from ~3000 to 6000 rpm or ~75 to 139mph. Do not try this outside of Germany, you'll likely be arrested

Ambient temperature was 72 degrees with 90% humidity, (got to over 100% near the end because it started raining.)
max boost targetwas ~24psi which begins slowly dropping off from 5300 rpm down to 22.6 at 6000 rpm as the turbo falls out of it's efficiency band.

The Charge air temps started at 82.7 F, after about 35 minutes of hard driving or ~11 degrees above ambient, which is very good! temps drop slightly before climbing to a max of 111 (39 F above ambient) at my shift to 6th, at this point the temps settle and dos not rise as I keep my foot planted to ~145 mph where I had to let off due to traffic and the fact that it had started absolutely pouring rain ending my fun for the night.

How do you pull up logs like the pic from your accessport? Sorry for being of topic but I also have map street intercooler and has been working fine

 

[TheLion]

I can tell you on the stock IC, I could feel the car pulling power well before the top of 5th but that's not even the full story. This inter cooler recovers in a minute or less of regular driving. It's basically ready to go after I decelerate to do another pull. The stock IC would take ages to come down in temps. I wish I had saved a log!

You would think for reliability's sake Ford would have used a better IC even despite their project requirement to maintain that 125hp gap between the EB and V8...it's this asininely rigid adherence to project requirements that baffles me. If the requirements don't make sense or interfere with reality, they need to change!

What it does illustrate however, is yet another confirmation of all of the evidence I posted on this issue (I collected a bunch of documented testing to show the very drastic heat soak issue). I think they went to far in de-tuning the EB when they started affecting the engines ability to even make it's rated power consistently.

It's one thing to hamstring an engine for the sake of selling higher tier models, but it's another to hamstring it to the point that it "gets slower" in the words of Motortrend...because it's not even meeting it's own specs at that point.

 

[PRG3k]

I just swapped out my MAP for a Levels street unit. I was expecting a big difference but I'm surprised at how the little MAP unit holds up.

 

[ypena02]

I just swapped out my MAP for a Levels street unit. I was expecting a big difference but I'm surprised at how the little MAP unit holds up.

Care to elaborate?

 

[TheLion]

I just swapped out my MAP for a Levels street unit. I was expecting a big difference but I'm surprised at how the little MAP unit holds up.

I wouldn't expect you would see much of a difference between Stage 1 and Stage 2 IC's unless your pushing big power on a race track, which is the worst case sustained stress.

The Levels Street is overkill for most of our applications at the power levels we are seeing with stock turbos and internals. However it will insure you have all the room you need to grow and would also perform better in actual track use as it will not only have a notably better resistance to heat soak, but also a better recovery as there is a lot of frontal area exposed to cool air.

You can't get around the large flat core designs vs. the deeper stage 1 box designs, where not only is the core smaller, but the back half is subjected to already saturated air. CP-e noted on one of the design threads that the back half of the box type (stage 1) only does about 25% of the cooling. The other 75% occurs primarily in the frontal half due to the passing air already being heat saturated after passing through the first half. As long as your not saturating the Stage 1 cores, I would not expect to see much of any difference as both will provide cool enough air to the engine that it's not pulling timing.

I have the Levels Gen 3 on order because it was at the stage 1 price point, but very close to Full Race performance level. Although if I end up being put on a 3 month waiting list before it ships I may cancel and opt for a CP-e stage 1...which is slightly larger than the MAP, but still of the same box type design and at a $500 price point. If you start to saturate the MAP and find its limits then put the Levels through the same conditions, then you will notice the difference as the Levels or other full sized IC's will continue to provide cooler air. Also if it was raining, you have a rather ideal condition for cooling as you have water vapor being pushed through the fins, giving the little map a performance boost.

I would expect to see more of a difference if it were 95F out and sunny....

I hadn't even considered going with a Levels originally until i spoke with Adam at AdamTuned, as I was looking at the CP-e, which is a great stock replacement. But he did have a great point about putting in the biggest IC you can afford / fit, why not have extra margin for the same price? It allows higher power mods, greater margin under the same conditions or reliable operation under more severe conditions than the smaller units.

But, I will say that any of the aftermarket stage 1 box type IC's are what the car should have come with from the factory as a minimum because they are highly effective despite their size at factory power levels.

 

[Glenn G]

So thanks to Adam [MENTION=13414]MAPerformance[/MENTION], I will be testing the MAP Race IC when it arrives hopefully in August to do an unbiased comparison test under similar conditions. I love it when a manufacturer is so confident in a product they want us to test it independently.

Honestly I was so Happy with the street IC I wasn't planning on upgrading but I can't pass this opportunity up.

As [MENTION=25093]TheLion[/MENTION] mentioned I think it is overkill for a street setup <500 whp.

Since Adam hooked me up with a price I could not refuse for the test, I will pass that on to any of you in Europe who need to upgrade but shipping is prohibitive. Once I swap and test, whichever one I let go will be available for ~400euro shipped anywhere in Europe.

 

[Glenn G]

How do you pull up logs like the pic from your accessport? Sorry for being of topic but I also have map street intercooler and has been working fine

You have to open the .csv file in excel and convert it then use the chart function. It is not that easy to do the first time but after that it becomes second nature. As a former Engineer and Logistics guy and currently an IT professional, you would be amazed at what I can do on Excel.

 

[PRG3k]

Care to elaborate?

Posted in the Levels thread.

 

[Glenn G]

3rd gear pull 3000 rpm to redline MAP Street core is looking pretty good

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