HPDE - Harnesses

[Biggsy]

I wonder if non-factory 'adjustable' (pivoting back) seats are also designed to pancake and adhere to the same crash standards. The prowl in the rear-ward direction doesn't have to be particularly robust under normal use...

I wonder the same

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[shogun32]

I'm curious why nobody has come up with a 'hinged' harness bar. Ie the base legs have a pivot point low to the floor and the 'bracing' legs are just say heavy duty braided steel cable. The system would be taut in the direction needed (body going forward) but would collapse down going the other way since the seat-back is now the motion-control device.

 

[theruleslawyer]

I'm curious why nobody has come up with a 'hinged' harness bar. Ie the base legs have a pivot point low to the floor and the 'bracing' legs are just say heavy duty braided steel cable. The system would be taut in the direction needed (body going forward) but would collapse down going the other way since the seat-back is now the motion-control device.

How would that be better than just having the straps mount back and down? At least if the seat harness slots are high enough.

 

[BMR Tech]

We have had a few people use the BMR HB760.

https://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&productid=2088&superpro=0

 

[Ewheels]

We have had a few people use the BMR HB760.

https://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&productid=2088&superpro=0

Unless I'm missing something, this looks dangerous (as are all harness bars). If you flip, your body can't get out of the way due to the harnesses but this offers no rollover protection.
If you're already consuming the back seat, might as well just get a roll bar

 

[shogun32]

How would that be better than just having the straps mount back and down? At least if the seat harness slots are high enough.

it's not. if the shoulder belt declination is supposed to be <20deg there is no attachment point within that arc on a Mustang. Though Schroth's ASM setup obviously violates that rule and they're fine with it - I guess BECAUSE it's ASM? Otherwise I've seen mention no declination below 90deg to seat-back angle.


If the BMR bar had the forward legs instead mounted to the rear-seat shoulder points, or better yet the bar was 'suspended' by the shoulder straps (keep the lower pivot mount), that could allow the harness bar to either be far enough back to be out of the way or pivot away when the seat needs to pancake. All the bars I've seen interfere with the seat back.

 

[luc]

You don't need that stuff. Your car is perfectly safe with 3 point belt, airbags, and a helmet just like 99% of all HPDE requires. My buddy was a GT series driver for years and he told me "never wear a harness unless you are driving a fully caged car".

Total nonsense and your buddy don’t know what he is talking about
Harnesses and racing seats serve a dual purpose, obviously one is safety but the other one, and so far completely overlooked and ignored in this thread, is car control
Car feedbacks come through the steering wheel and the seat
If you’re bracing yourself in turns against the door and the console and holding the steering wheel with a death grip just to hold yourself in place, you simply can’t drive correctly and “feel” what the car is trying to communicate to you
A Schroth without an anti submarine belt (s) is pretty much worthless because at you tighten the shoulders belts, the laps belts follow and goes up
On a Mustang changing seat is a 4 bolts, 10 minutes deal

 

[BMR Tech]

Just giving the feed back I have gotten from customers that have bought it for this purpose.

Unless I'm missing something, this looks dangerous (as are all harness bars). If you flip, your body can't get out of the way due to the harnesses but this offers no rollover protection.
If you're already consuming the back seat, might as well just get a roll bar

 

[tosha]

correct. HANS are only designed for 2 non-tearing straps.
If you stay with factory seats, and use a non-tearing 4-point then you must have a HANS.

Ok, so with the help of above posted video, it is clear that QuickFit (including pro) has tearing point on one of the shoulder straps to enable body rotation. At the same time Pro version is specifically for use with HANS. No idea how this all works together at the end of day. I guess it's just easier to go with non-pro version.

I wonder if non-factory 'adjustable' (pivoting back) seats are also designed to pancake and adhere to the same crash standards. The prowl in the rear-ward direction doesn't have to be particularly robust under normal use...

No interest to become crash test dummy

 

[slowdown]

Total nonsense and your buddy don’t know what he is talking about
Harnesses and racing seats serve a dual purpose, obviously one is safety but the other one, and so far completely overlooked and ignored in this thread, is car control
Car feedbacks come through the steering wheel and the seat
If you’re bracing yourself in turns against the door and the console and holding the steering wheel with a death grip just to hold yourself in place, you simply can’t drive correctly and “feel” what the car is trying to communicate to you
A Schroth without an anti submarine belt (s) is pretty much worthless because at you tighten the shoulders belts, the laps belts follow and goes up
On a Mustang changing seat is a 4 bolts, 10 minutes deal

Respectfully, I prefer to listen to a retired professional race car driver over a guy on a forum. Forums are great tools and this is why - filter through advice and do what's best for you. However, you didn't really even address my point - It's based on rollover protection. You should not be planted to your seat with a harness and head restraints if you car isn't caged. I never mentioned car control and how planted you are in a race seat and harness b/c we all already know that. This is based on HPDE and the OP is a beginner.

This is why good instructors immediately move clients closer to the steering wheel and straighten the seat back to put them in a proper position. This alone changes driving feedback 10 fold and, based on my experience, is more than sufficient for enjoying a high performance car on the track. You think the recent Mach1 lightning lap changes significantly if the driver is in a harness and race seat? c'mon. Tires, camber, caster, toe, damping, chassis stiffness, solid mounts, etc.. change lap times more than a car seat.

Best thing for the OP to do is the beginner paced lap HPDE and see how his car feels, talk to the guys at the track and go from there. Showing up to your first HPDE with racing seats, a harness, head restraints, and R888s is like bringing a downhill race bike to a gravel road. He will not even remotely use any of it.

 

[theruleslawyer]

This is why good instructors immediately move clients closer to the steering wheel and straighten the seat back to put them in a proper position. This alone changes driving feedback 10 fold and, based on my experience, is more than sufficient for enjoying a high performance car on the track. You think the recent Mach1 lightning lap changes significantly if the driver is in a harness and race seat? c'mon. Tires, camber, caster, toe, damping, chassis stiffness, solid mounts, etc.. change lap times more than a car seat.

Honestly I think a seat and harnesses can make a big impact in times. It takes a ton of mental load off when you don’t have to hold yourself in place. I didn’t even realize how much effort it was until I switched. It would make an interesting video with objective tests though. I suspect level of driver will play into that.

 

[luc]

Respectfully, I prefer to listen to a retired professional race car driver over a guy on a forum. Forums are great tools and this is why - filter through advice and do what's best for you. However, you didn't really even address my point - It's based on rollover protection. You should not be planted to your seat with a harness and head restraints if you car isn't caged. I never mentioned car control and how planted you are in a race seat and harness b/c we all already know that. This is based on HPDE and the OP is a beginner.

This is why good instructors immediately move clients closer to the steering wheel and straighten the seat back to put them in a proper position. This alone changes driving feedback 10 fold and, based on my experience, is more than sufficient for enjoying a high performance car on the track. You think the recent Mach1 lightning lap changes significantly if the driver is in a harness and race seat? c'mon. Tires, camber, caster, toe, damping, chassis stiffness, solid mounts, etc.. change lap times more than a car seat.

Best thing for the OP to do is the beginner paced lap HPDE and see how his car feels, talk to the guys at the track and go from there. Showing up to your first HPDE with racing seats, a harness, head restraints, and R888s is like bringing a downhill race bike to a gravel road. He will not even remotely use any of it.

Respectfully too, I mostly disagree with you
I have been racing for over 30 years and have owned and run for close to 20 years a open track and race club in California so I do have some knowledge on the subject
The only part that I agree with you and that for a complete beginner, a stock car is more than sufficient.
First step is not about speed but rather about learning the lines, braking points, etc
Once you have a few track days under your belt, a racing seat and harness become almost mandatory if you want to drive well
Regarding lap times:
In my experience a racing seat and harness is only second to tires as far that improvement is concerned
May I ask you what your track experience is and which Series did your friend race with ?
I will add that since G forces are directly related to speed, a “slowish” driver may not feel the need for a racing seat and harness

 

[Biggsy]

Honestly I think a seat and harnesses can make a big impact in times. It takes a ton of mental load off when you don’t have to hold yourself in place. I didn’t even realize how much effort it was until I switched. It would make an interesting video with objective tests though. I suspect level of driver will play into that.

Man this is true. I suffered a herniated disc in 2020 and my first track day after that was terrible with stock seats and quick fit pro. Was using every muscle in my body to keep me in my seat and still using the steering wheel to brace myself. Brought it up with other members in the track mustang FB group and those with similar back issues said the fix it a race seat. That’s why I sold my harness and will be using a proper seat this year. I’m sure it will make turning more enjoyable with proper execution

 

[ChipG]

As is clear from all these messages, opinions vary greatly. For my HPDE car (still daily driven) I decided on Schroth Quikfit Pro harnesses. I use them with a HANS, and I've added anti-sub straps that I sit on, run between seat and back, and attach to brackets between the rear seat bolts. I'm held in place well, the harness doesn't pull up, in an accident the HANS would protect my neck, and in the rare case of a rollover, since I have no roll bar, the Quikfit Pro should allow the movement of stock 3-points so I'm not trapped bolt upright. I don't expect to move beyond this in a street car - next step would be roll bar and fixed back seats with non-ASM harnesses.

 

[2morrow]

The quick fit pro was good for a couple seasons for me. I find it kinda odd that an organization requires a novice driver to run a dedicated harness.

Try looking up your area on Track Night in America. We are very novice oriented. https://www.tracknightinamerica.com/events

I have also seen several shelby guys get holes cut into their seats and it looks professional.

I've seen and know of several guys that remove their seats for track days too.

In my case I run a set of Sparco QRT-C seats but kept the OEM seat belt and use it for when I drive on the street.

Good luck OP and enjoy your track days!

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