How to determine the best intercooler for high altitude use

[RubyRed15]

I live 6,660 feet above sea level, which has a significant impact on an intercooler's ability to cool charge air. When I upgrade my intercooler, I want to offset this loss as much as possible, but I have two problems: 1) finding data on a lot of the available options is not easy; and 2) I'm not exactly certain how to read what data I can find.

My two questions, then, are 1) are there any comparison tests published anywhere, or is manufacturer data as good as it gets; and 2) which parameters are critical in determining the best intercooler for my application?

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[ypena02]

The best IC at sea level is still going to be the best IC at high altitude, even though they will all be less efficient.

The consensus is ATM, Levels, and Full-Race.

 

[Kjewer1]

I agree, the selection process is the same.

There's really no way to make up for the altitude with post-compressor treatment, especially if you are compressor limited as is often the case with small factory turbos. You can regain some density ratio up until the compressor limit, which will reduce boost level and PR some for a given airflow, but that's the case at any altitude. In essence, inlet conditions are inlet conditions. Reduced inlet density at altitude forces a high PR, and low specific airflow.

 

[RubyRed15]

I understand that inlet conditions are what they are; it's the ~20% reduction in cooling air passing through the intercooler that I was concerned about. Even if altitude concerns can be factored out, I'd like to make a more educated choice than basing it on, "Me & Karl have Brand X, so Brand X is the best".

 

[Kjewer1]

Understood. Unless you're road racing the intercooler can absorb a lot of heat as a heatsink, with no airflow at all. Your concern is valid, but for typical use I wouldn't worry too much about it. As stated by someone previously, the one that transfers heat "best" at sea level is likely the best at altitude too. There might be some argument for more fin count on the ambient side, or "better" fins that would normally be considered restrictive at normal air density, but I don't know enough about it to give any guidance there.

When it comes to good specs for choosing an intercooler, there really aren't any. And the specs that are sometimes given are generally useless. Pressure drop values without flow reference, generic HP "limits", etc. The best way to evaluate an intercooler is to build and test it. Which is why we're always looking at IAT data from other similar cars and from the vendors that offer the kits.

I realize this really isn't what you're looking for, but perhaps it still helps.

 

[RubyRed15]

When it comes to good specs for choosing an intercooler, there really aren't any. And the specs that are sometimes given are generally useless. Pressure drop values without flow reference, generic HP "limits", etc. The best way to evaluate an intercooler is to build and test it. Which is why we're always looking at IAT data from other similar cars and from the vendors that offer the kits.

I realize this really isn't what you're looking for, but perhaps it still helps.

That is definitely what I'm struggling with.

 

[perfweld]

Id be more interested in how much more pressure id give your engine at your altitude. Given that the air is so thin, barometer being so low, id be on my tuner to raise the boost. As far as the inter cooler, I only see it as a tool to lower the charge air temperature. Obviously each has a different pressure drop, but im sure the drop is within a psi of each other, brand to brand, but in the end, the goal is to reduce the charge air temp. Again not what your looking for, sorry. But on my end like I said, id be asking the tuner about raising the boost pressure to compensate for your high altitude.

 

[RubyRed15]

Id be more interested in how much more pressure id give your engine at your altitude. Given that the air is so thin, barometer being so low, id be on my tuner to raise the boost. As far as the inter cooler, I only see it as a tool to lower the charge air temperature. Obviously each has a different pressure drop, but im sure the drop is within a psi of each other, brand to brand, but in the end, the goal is to reduce the charge air temp. Again not what your looking for, sorry. But on my end like I said, id be asking the tuner about raising the boost pressure to compensate for your high altitude.

Tuning is definitely a worthwhile consideration, but a topic for a different thread.

 

[JerseyDevil]

I live 6,660 feet above sea level, which has a significant impact on an intercooler's ability to cool charge air. When I upgrade my intercooler, I want to offset this loss as much as possible, but I have two problems: 1) finding data on a lot of the available options is not easy; and 2) I'm not exactly certain how to read what data I can find.

My two questions, then, are 1) are there any comparison tests published anywhere, or is manufacturer data as good as it gets; and 2) which parameters are critical in determining the best intercooler for my application?

Our intercooler(ATM) has the best AIT suppression of any intercooler available for these cars. We have had many customers that have upgraded from other intercoolers to ours with excellent results. We have had one customer that tried multiple(4 others) intercoolers on his car in roadcourse situations and then switched to ours as well... We will gladly put our intercooler up against any other in independent testing, same car,same day in regards to:
AIT drop
Recovery back to starting temp
Pressure drop

Why are we so confident?
-Our intercoolers are custom designed for each vehicle.
-We don't use ANY off the shelf components.
-Our cores are custom spec'd for each application.
-Our intercoolers are regarded as the best for EVERY vehicle we sell them for.

If there is any specific information you want or anything in regards to proper intercooler design/testing feel free to ask!

 

[Kjewer1]

If there is any specific information you want or anything in regards to proper intercooler design/testing feel free to ask!

OP did ask a specific question you might be able to help with. The copy/paste part doesn't answer anything IMO.

 

[dragonacc]

I would really like to see a direct comparison of all the Intercoolers done by a third party. I can tell you for instance that the FFTEC EcoPro IC is right up there with anything available. It uses a 750 continuous HP (1000+ peak) core.

I'd like to know what all the others are rated at. At the end of the day there are only a few companies that produce IC cores so the difference between all the offerings is usually going to come down to core rating. (ATM being an exception perhaps since they put some extra thought into the whole thing)

 

[JerseyDevil]

OP did ask a specific question you might be able to help with. The copy/paste part doesn't answer anything IMO.

In regards to the op original question, the parameter that is changed when going from sea level to altitude would be overcoming the pressure drop in atmospheric pressure vs sea level to target boost level requested by the tune. This fill time is affected in part by the pressure drop experienced from the inlet to outlet of the intercooler as well as the AIT drop and the intercoolers ability to thwart off heat soak. This parameter is affected in the tune via ignition advance which has a huge affect on spool time. I.e. Lower AIT = more advanced timing = faster spool time to target boost. I cover the mechanical aspects of how each feature of the intercooler affects both AIT and pressure drop starting on post 109 of the intercooler comparison sticky on this forum!

 

[RubyRed15]

In regards to the op original question, the parameter that is changed when going from sea level to altitude would be overcoming the pressure drop in atmospheric pressure vs sea level to target boost level requested by the tune. This fill time is affected in part by the pressure drop experienced from the inlet to outlet of the intercooler as well as the AIT drop and the intercoolers ability to thwart off heat soak. This parameter is affected in the tune via ignition advance which has a huge affect on spool time. I.e. Lower AIT = more advanced timing = faster spool time to target boost. I cover the mechanical aspects of how each feature of the intercooler affects both AIT and pressure drop starting on post 109 of the intercooler comparison sticky on this forum!

Thanks. You didn't mention anything about the reduction in cooling air flowing through the core - because this is only a problem in my mind, because it's insignificant, something else?

From what you've said here and in post 109 in the other thread, I'm gathering that using the bar and plate core type, maximizing face area, and minimizing the depth (the distance over which the cooling air must travel) would be the design factors that would maximize effectiveness any altitude. Am I right?

 

[RubyRed15]

Found this nice table later in the thread. [MENTION=13727]sleepless[/MENTION], any chance we could get another update?

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