Ford, Shelby American and "limp mode" cooling concerns

[mattlqx]

Just a question, where is all this extra heat coming from? I did order a TrackPack but my current 15 GT/PP I took to an open airport run and literally with little cool down ran an entire tank of gas at WOT. Did a track day at Gingerman Raceway park, again no issues. This is with just the PP radiator and simple M82 tranny? So what's overheating the 350 tech's?

Radiator is irrelevant, engine temps are fine because all GT350s have an engine oil cooler. I'm not sure the internal differences between the Tremec 3160 and the MT-82 but the Tremec has to deal with a good bit higher engine RPMs, which inevitably generates more heat. But it also has a temperature sensor in it so the ECU is aware of how hot it's running. MT-82s are not outfitted with transmission oil temperature sensors as far as I know. You can run them hotter than you should for a long while until something breaks.

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[jwhite]

Radiator is irrelevant, engine temps are fine because all GT350s have an engine oil cooler. I'm not sure the internal differences between the Tremec 3160 and the MT-82 but the Tremec has to deal with a good bit higher engine RPMs, which inevitably generates more heat. But it also has a temperature sensor in it so the ECU is aware of how hot it's running. MT-82s are not outfitted with transmission oil temperature sensors as far as I know. You can run them hotter than you should for a long while until something breaks.

Thank you, great explanation.

 

[Hack]

Just a question, where is all this extra heat coming from? I did order a TrackPack but my current 15 GT/PP I took to an open airport run and literally with little cool down ran an entire tank of gas at WOT. Did a track day at Gingerman Raceway park, again no issues. This is with just the PP radiator and simple M82 tranny? So what's overheating the 350 tech's?

If you look at the MT-82 transmission case - there are lots of cooling fins built into the exterior of it. The Tremec is not set up that way. In order to save a few pounds the Tremec design only has enough material to keep the case stiff enough to withstand the engine's power.

The airflow in the GT350 is also managed carefully with a lot less of it passing under the car. This means less cooling of components under the car. Preventing air from getting under the car helps with track times, but when those changes are made there are other changes that are needed to keep the car functioning well.

The Voodoo engine produces more heat than the Coyote due to making more power, and the large, high flow cats and exhaust on the GT350 probably transfer more heat to the transmission than those components on the GT.

 

[jwhite]

Again thank you, was kinda wondering if they closed off the bottom of the car too well? I didn't think about the higher RPM's.

 

[xt6wagon]

Again thank you, was kinda wondering if they closed off the bottom of the car too well? I didn't think about the higher RPM's.

They also have the hood and fender vents. Thats a good bit of air that would be under the car otherwise.

But really the big issue is the much higher avg RPM the GT350 sees on the track. 8,000 rpm shifts drop it to above 6K. Couple that with the ability to put power down for much longer than a GT... We are talking a huge difference in thermal loads. Braking later, power earlie adds time that its generating heat, while reducing the time its cooling.

One "solution" is to short shift when you can, and find sections where you can preserve lap time by getting a smoother entry from less throttle/brakes in very short straights. 5K rpm is full torque output from the motor. In a full race situation you would be trying to maximize avg HP put down each lap... track days don't win you anything. So let the car see lower RPM if it can avoid a shift. Below 4K is the no-go, above that is golden.

 

[hal_farthead]

I agree we need to get as many people as possible to call FP about this issue.

Noted. I'll try to do that this week. The only hitch is that I haven't actually had the problem yet on my car.

 

[Zitrosounds]

Radiator is irrelevant, engine temps are fine because all GT350s have an engine oil cooler. I'm not sure the internal differences between the Tremec 3160 and the MT-82 but the Tremec has to deal with a good bit higher engine RPMs, which inevitably generates more heat. But it also has a temperature sensor in it so the ECU is aware of how hot it's running. MT-82s are not outfitted with transmission oil temperature sensors as far as I know. You can run them hotter than you should for a long while until something breaks.

ALso, the size of the GT350 Tremec TR3160 is significantly smaller than the MT-82. There is less material for the heat to dissipate through the gear box.

 

[TRACK CRAZY GT350]

Noted. I'll try to do that this week. The only hitch is that I haven't actually had the problem yet on my car.

I called FP today and talked to Mike G. Overall he did not seem to concerned. He did say FP is aware of the issue and trying to do something but had no idea when. He told me that I should try to fabricate my own trans cooler and that it would not affect the warranty. I don't believe that for a second. I was asked why I didn't buy a track pack. I gave him all the reasons which I don't have to repeat here. When he told me that he only had about 10 calls on the issue I just about flipped. We have had all these long threads with hundreds of responses yet it seems FP thinks there is little outcry on the issue. Come on guys you need to call FP and let them know what the GT350 community is thinking. If you have not experienced limp mode but are worried that it might happed in the future still give them a call. FP needs to know that there are more than 10 owners concerned about trans temps. Phone number is 800-367-3788.

 

[Voodooo]

I called FP today and talked to Mike G. Overall he did not seem to concerned. He did say FP is aware of the issue and trying to do something but had no idea when. He told me that I should try to fabricate my own trans cooler and that it would not affect the warranty. I don't believe that for a second. I was asked why I didn't buy a track pack. I gave him all the reasons which I don't have to repeat here. When he told me that he only had about 10 calls on the issue I just about flipped. We have had all these long threads with hundreds of responses yet it seems FP thinks there is little outcry on the issue. Come on guys you need to call FP and let them know what the GT350 community is thinking. If you have not experienced limp mode but are worried that it might happed in the future still give them a call. FP needs to know that there are more than 10 owners concerned about trans temps. Phone number is 800-367-3788.

If I had a tech car I'd call and bitch too. But what bothers me is Mike saying it's ok for owners to come up and install their own coolers! And to hear him say that it won't effect your warranty?!?!?!? Wtf yeah and I'm a ice salesman in Alaska. Go ahead install your own cooler and God forbid a cooler line doesn't blow off or Leak trans fluid all over and blow the trans or catch the car on fire. It's ok Mike said it wouldn't effect the warranty and ford will cover it. Yeah RIGHT MIKE!

 

[mattlqx]

I talked to him and Jim Owens in-person about it at the Track Tour, so I feel I did my "duty".

 

[50 Deep]

I will talk to them about the cooling option tomorrow at the Track Tour

 

[Hack]

I called FP today and talked to Mike G. Overall he did not seem to concerned. He did say FP is aware of the issue and trying to do something but had no idea when. He told me that I should try to fabricate my own trans cooler and that it would not affect the warranty. I don't believe that for a second. I was asked why I didn't buy a track pack. I gave him all the reasons which I don't have to repeat here. When he told me that he only had about 10 calls on the issue I just about flipped. We have had all these long threads with hundreds of responses yet it seems FP thinks there is little outcry on the issue. Come on guys you need to call FP and let them know what the GT350 community is thinking. If you have not experienced limp mode but are worried that it might happed in the future still give them a call. FP needs to know that there are more than 10 owners concerned about trans temps. Phone number is 800-367-3788.

We all know they've been called by way more than 10 people. When I called they said very similar stuff to me.

 

[barstowpo]

I talked to a Shelby American employee at Fabulous Fords at Knotts 2 weeks ago. He said they were working with Ford on a solution. He also said there were going to be 2 Fixes offered by SA and one by Ford. He teased that one fix didn't involve an external pump. One would be priced at about $500 and the other $2000. He expected it to be done around the end of May. He also said SA employees were back on MI testing with Ford.

 

[Hack]

Colleton, who said anything about Ford and SA being part of GT350 development? How on earth did you misconstrue my statement?????? SMH
Why would I make this up? Do I somehow have vested interest????? oh wait! I don't! I own a track pack. SMH I called SA to settle rumors and get answers to help those with this issue.
Hack, Why wouldn't Ford outsource an after market solution for the limp mode? Ford is not going to fix the problem but they will reach out to the after market to provide some relief. Pretty much has been like this as long as I have been on the car scene. SMH.

I apologize for making you smack your head over and over. :cheers:

I talked to a Shelby American employee at Fabulous Fords at Knotts 2 weeks ago. He said they were working with Ford on a solution. He also said there were going to be 2 Fixes offered by SA and one by Ford. He teased that one fix didn't involve an external pump. One would be priced at about $500 and the other $2000. He expected it to be done around the end of May. He also said SA employees were back on MI testing with Ford.

Thanks for the info and backing up the head smacker.

 

[Zitrosounds]

I apologize for making you smack your head over and over. :cheers:


Thanks for the info and backing up the head smacker.

hack, my rendition of SMH is SCRATCH MY HEAD. LOL Smacking would hurt and as someone suggested in an other thread SHAKING MY HEAD (SMH) could lead to my head falling off hahahahah. Glad to hear many are reporting the same information. That should solidify to many that Ford will have a fix soon.

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