Ford Dealers are Terrible

[e30og]

oh yea, this happened driving to autozone tonight, the lower bumper panel that attaches to the grille they replaced popped out and dragged all over the pavement! Literally nothing they had the car for the second month was fixed, not even the grille! Happened tonight, prompting me to share my my long winded experiences with Ford Service. I was on the way to a car wash because the dealer let the car sit forever and it was filthy, covered in pollen & crap to where you cant see out of the rear window with the sun out. Couldnt even wash the car after over 4 grand of repair work!

POO POO ON TUTTLE-CLICK's CAPISTRANO FORD...located between Laguna Beach & San Clemente. On the upside my girl and I have been making beach trips on all these crappy dealer visits.

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[Mustang5ohMan]

Yeah that’s terrible experiences... If I was in the same boat I’d probably trade in and wouldn’t look back... such a shame.

& the value these things drop are crazy... it’s odd as I didn’t see my dodge values drop like this but who knows...

 

[Rapid Red]

I am not sure it's the Dealers. It is more of a lack of skilled employees. Here is a cold hard fact ............ we do not have true troubleshooters . And it is in every segment of the repair industry.

There are part changes, clueless as to how the parts that make up a system. Work together in what being repaired . How can someone fix something if they do not know how it works to begin with?

 

[Rapid Red]

4 dealership visits for repair or warranty work, on 3 brand new fords. Very telling experiences:

1) '12 Focus (new gen), Warranty trim and panel issues, entertained every little thing I requested although some of the trim replaced still had big gaps lol. I laughed and just said screwit they tried and its a cheap car. took a few days, 'okay' customer service, No loaner.

2) '13 Focus, car dies intermittently, Warranty. 3 visits, including breaking down in front of the dealer on visit 2. Tech finally found a bad ground. A few days each of the 3 visits, good customer service. No loaner until the last breakdown.

3) '18 Mustang, active exhaust rattle, sagging hood blanket, seat sagging, Warranty. 2 visits, 2 different ride-alongs with tech and shop manager. They replaced the valves but I still get it intermittently and haven't had time to go back. 2-3 weeks per visit(!) after waiting 4 weeks to get in(!), issue remains, but Good customer service throughout. Loaner after visit 2 and them having the car for over a month (and pleading due to the fact that I am an essential worker in a local hospital)

And here we go, the bad one...

4) '18 Mustang, repair work for major breakdown:
- had previously ran over a rock. Immediately checked and saw the aero shield was cracked but missed the oil or trans pan. Car drove absolutely perfectly except alignment was a little crooked. Month later it broke down; trans cradle apparently had a small crack that grew, clutch and flywheel ate poo, broke the starter trying to get the car running. Towed to local dealer with good star rating on google. Out of pocket/Insurance claim, new trans-brace, clutch, flywheel, starter, and underbody aero shield.

- Picked it up after a month & paid. Drove away but the car still had significant NVH & drivetrain noise, alignment still off, and cracked lower grille. Took the car back to the dealer - mind you, it is 110 miles away from home, 220 miles roundtrip! Svc Rep said it was still accident related issues and needed to diagnose further, no loaner. Did the alignment, new motor mounts, replaced the cracked lower grille, all took another month(!) but promised the car was tip top.

- Picked it up again and it STILL had issues...alignment wasnt fully done, drivetrain noises, shifter buzzing/rattling. Since I got it back on a weekend I have been trying to reschedule a time to bring it in a 3rd time(!) to fix alignment and all the buzzes/drivetrain rattles & excessive noise. Agreed a tech will ride with me to point out the issues. Only now the dealer is being bullish about when they can schedule a ride-along, even trying to push me to schedule a specific day I am unavailable (again, 220 mile roundtrip I need to have a second driver for, along with night-shift Nursing job in a COVID ICU), despite the fact that I have thrown out multiple days of availability. Can't do a ride-along on a Friday anytime because they have to take care of other customers cars(!). As I always have been with Svc Rep, thanked him, agreed, and acted totally polite.

I did call the dealer right after, got the Svc Director's info, and left a loooooong message with the deets of how I was being jerked around, and that is where things stand now with my 2018 hooptie Mustang.

- FYI I have been totally cool headed & polite the *entire time*. I never wanted to be that bonehead that yells at the reps or makes silly demands frustrated with an issue. I have worked too many jobs to know the receiving end of my issue will likely be much happier to help a patient/client/customer if they are level-headed. I pressured my own insurance *twice* on behalf of the Svc Rep (who was too lazy to upload pictures or use the insurance's online site). And despite being soooooo understanding and helpful, I was refused a loaner even for the 3rd visit(!). Not only that, but Svc Rep would not budge on a day to do a ride-along convenient to me, because they are all 'busy finishing other customers cars".

Overall throughout these 4 experiences, even the *perfect* customer still gets very mixed customer service, is not immune to terrible treatment, and work is NEVER finished promptly. They all drag it out over weekends and make up bull-spit excuses why a week has gone by and minimal work is done. Loaners are almost non-existent. Even for warranty work, loaners are only given after diagnosis time and only if it will take longer than a day to fix, or if it is an issue affecting drivability, *even if* they keep the car for days awaiting parts. There will always be back-and-forth war for a loaner, even if you buy the ESP and pay extra for 'first-day rental'; it was explained that they still have to diagnose the car to ensure it is warranty work (meaning the entire time diagnosing an issue still means no loaner).

Overall, for what I paid for this car (and what I am looking to spend on getting rid of this demon child once finally sorted out), I am paying near luxury car prices and am tired of being treated like I bought a Fiesta. Have bought Fords exclusively, brand new, since 2012, and will absolutely cross shop everything else before considering another, purely based on service. German and Subaru/Toyota/Honda are at a minimum marginally improved or better. Have yet to find a Ford dealer with a good Service department.

Yeah, as someone that has and is working in the repair & service field. I will say this. Had a Focus as a company car, taking a Focus back for trim aliment unless truly gross is ............ nit picking.

That was a red flag, knowing that pretty sure the Dealer will be glad to see you go on your way.

 

[shogun32]

Have bought Fords exclusively, brand new, since 2012

sounds like it's time to rethink. but devil you know and all that. Where on earth are you that you need to drive 110miles to a Ford dealer? Maybe it's time to take the fishing boat into work and grab an uber for the last mile? Since this is an insurance job I'd get the ins company to force a change in venue.

 

[e30og]

sounds like it's time to rethink. but devil you know and all that. Where on earth are you that you need to drive 110miles to a Ford dealer? Maybe it's time to take the fishing boat into work and grab an uber for the last mile? Since this is an insurance job I'd get the ins company to force a change in venue.

The car broke down 110 miles from home, and instead of towing it that distance I just brought it to a nearby ford dealer. I initially thought it was warranty, i didnt realize a rock from a month ago would have done that

Yeah, as someone that has and is working in the repair & service field. I will say this. Had a Focus as a company car, taking a Focus back for trim aliment unless truly gross is ............ nit picking.

That was a red flag, knowing that pretty sure the Dealer will be glad to see you go on your way.

Thats why I didnt make a fuss of it. And even with the most recent dealer ive been stellar to work with, nothing was nitpicky about rattling shifters, sagging bumpers, and a crooked alignment. All of which weren't fixed twice

 

[Mustang5ohMan]

Wow... it’s funny I went to a new dealer today on Saturday. Was an ok experience. The service advisor told me two things:

1) She said we don’t push our Saturday service because we like to get in and get out, she said sawgrass ford is open on Saturday a full day.

2) Then we had a quick convo about loners this is what she said and I will quote it: “The owner won’t buy into Lincoln because they require loaners and he’s not into having loaners and the liability.”


So yup there you have it. I think any premium brand offers loners as it’s a kick back from the manufacture. She said the manufacture leases them or something then sells them.

I love my 392 Dodges and I love this 5.0 Mustang just guess they don’t see the value in loaners. Heck the only car Ford is making now really is the Mustang think everything else was chopped lol so maybe that’s part of the problem they don’t want to loan out Escapes and Explorers.

 

[mindo389]

As a master technician & former instructor, albeit in the industrial field, I find that troubleshooting issues can be hard to diagnose the source (problem, cause, solution). I learned early on that I didn't want to become an automotive technician. Too many things can lead to a problem. However, dealerships are supposed to have extensive training & it is up to the individual technician to take self-initiative to take the training & also learn it. Personally, I liked the idea of someone else paying me to go to another city for classes... The worst thing about most, if not all dealership shops: flat rate pay. It may be ok for an oil change or brake service - minor issues. However, for example; troubleshooting an electrical issue or some other major problem, the technician learns shortcuts & bad habits to get the job done or he has to work on his own time to get things done. It leads to poor quality service (how fast can the job be done). I watched a technician work on a Saturday on his own time to troubleshoot a faulty mirror on Ford truck. My opinion, is likely that he didn't take the initiative to learn on his own time such as take online training or perhaps declined taking training at Ford's classes somewhere. I'm not placing the blame on all technicians, as in over 40 years of my experiences, I've come across great, average & bad techs, poor manufacturing from the factory, or poor quality components. Troubleshooting & repairs all come down to finding a dependable person. A few pointers for those looking for a dependable shop: Look at how clean the shop is. You can observe it while chatting or waiting for the service writer. How many master technicians are employed there? Listen to the technician's chatter. Obscene or shouting can be a sign of issues. Yeah, we all do it... lol. Also, bad reviews could be a warning. Just because a vehicle is purchased at one dealership doesn't mean you have to service it there. Yes, if you own a Ford, you do have to take it to a Ford recommended shop for warranties. I suggest if there are any issues with repairs, first bring it up to the service manager. If not satisfied, ask for the dealership manager. Sales may be a big part of a dealership, but service is larger. I don't like to see technicians lose their jobs, however things happen. Reputation is earned one way or another.

 

[Mustang5ohMan]

I am not sure it's the Dealers. It is more of a lack of skilled employees. Here is a cold hard fact ............ we do not have true troubleshooters . And it is in every segment of the repair industry.

There are part changes, clueless as to how the parts that make up a system. Work together in what being repaired . How can someone fix something if they do not know how it works to begin with?

Yeah, as someone that has and is working in the repair & service field. I will say this. Had a Focus as a company car, taking a Focus back for trim aliment unless truly gross is ............ nit picking.

That was a red flag, knowing that pretty sure the Dealer will be glad to see you go on your way.

As a master technician & former instructor, albeit in the industrial field, I find that troubleshooting issues can be hard to diagnose the source (problem, cause, solution). I learned early on that I didn't want to become an automotive technician. Too many things can lead to a problem. However, dealerships are supposed to have extensive training & it is up to the individual technician to take self-initiative to take the training & also learn it. Personally, I liked the idea of someone else paying me to go to another city for classes... The worst thing about most, if not all dealership shops: flat rate pay. It may be ok for an oil change or brake service - minor issues. However, for example; troubleshooting an electrical issue or some other major problem, the technician learns shortcuts & bad habits to get the job done or he has to work on his own time to get things done. It leads to poor quality service (how fast can the job be done). I watched a technician work on a Saturday on his own time to troubleshoot a faulty mirror on Ford truck. My opinion, is likely that he didn't take the initiative to learn on his own time such as take online training or perhaps declined taking training at Ford's classes somewhere. I'm not placing the blame on all technicians, as in over 40 years of my experiences, I've come across great, average & bad techs, poor manufacturing from the factory, or poor quality components. Troubleshooting & repairs all come down to finding a dependable person. A few pointers for those looking for a dependable shop: Look at how clean the shop is. You can observe it while chatting or waiting for the service writer. How many master technicians are employed there? Listen to the technician's chatter. Obscene or shouting can be a sign of issues. Yeah, we all do it... lol. Also, bad reviews could be a warning. Just because a vehicle is purchased at one dealership doesn't mean you have to service it there. Yes, if you own a Ford, you do have to take it to a Ford recommended shop for warranties. I suggest if there are any issues with repairs, first bring it up to the service manager. If not satisfied, ask for the dealership manager. Sales may be a big part of a dealership, but service is larger. I don't like to see technicians lose their jobs, however things happen. Reputation is earned one way or another.

great point. This new ford dealer has a window where you can watch your car being worked on. Cool for the customers maybe off for the techs I don’t know...
either way I do what you do I listen for the talk and I look at the shape the shop is in. I think some people have a natural knack for repairing things and doing their job, others are just there to collect a paycheck. I was under the impression techs got paid by the job as a labor rate from ford.

for instance if ford says it takes 3 days to replace a transmission and has a pay rate for that the tech gets paid for that even though he may get it done in 2 days thus he can pick up another job. 3 transmission jobs in 6 days vs. 2 in 6 = more pay.

 

[Dave2013M3]

great point. This new ford dealer has a window where you can watch your car being worked on. Cool for the customers maybe off for the techs I don’t know...
either way I do what you do I listen for the talk and I look at the shape the shop is in. I think some people have a natural knack for repairing things and doing their job, others are just there to collect a paycheck. I was under the impression techs got paid by the job as a labor rate from ford.

for instance if ford says it takes 3 days to replace a transmission and has a pay rate for that the tech gets paid for that even though he may get it done in 2 days thus he can pick up another job. 3 transmission jobs in 6 days vs. 2 in 6 = more pay.

No its normally rate times whatever the job (Chilton Rate)

I am not sure it's the Dealers. It is more of a lack of skilled employees. Here is a cold hard fact ............ we do not have true troubleshooters . And it is in every segment of the repair industry.

There are part changes, clueless as to how the parts that make up a system. Work together in what being repaired . How can someone fix something if they do not know how it works to begin with?

To be honest this isn't just a Ford issue. Dealers regardless of brands don't get paid to diagnose a car, they get paid to fix the car. Go to BMW, Porsche sites as well and see how many times people had to bring their car back as it wasn't fixed. Difference is while your car is in service you get to drive around in a brand new (whatever luxury brand the dealer is) car until your car is serviced. My first BWW was a 2001 BMW E46 M3, one of the first sold in my area. Started getting a loose change kind of noise from under the car. Took it 4 times to Beverly HIlls BMW, finally the 4th time I took the service manager in the car and reproduced the sound to him and they finally fixed it. A bad guibo on the 2 piece drive shaft. They replaced dustshields, told me nothing was wrong. Until I took that manager out for a ride to I was able to duplicate the sound (in other words I had to diagnose the car) it didn't get fixed. That was the last issue I had with this car.

 

[Mustang5ohMan]

No its normally rate times whatever the job (Chilton Rate)



To be honest this isn't just a Ford issue. Dealers regardless of brands don't get paid to diagnose a car, they get paid to fix the car. Go to BMW, Porsche sites as well and see how many times people had to bring their car back as it wasn't fixed. Difference is while your car is in service you get to drive around in a brand new (whatever luxury brand the dealer is) car until your car is serviced. My first BWW was a 2001 BMW E46 M3, one of the first sold in my area. Started getting a loose change kind of noise from under the car. Took it 4 times to Beverly HIlls BMW, finally the 4th time I took the service manager in the car and reproduced the sound to him and they finally fixed it. A bad guibo on the 2 piece drive shaft. They replaced dustshields, told me nothing was wrong. Until I took that manager out for a ride to I was able to duplicate the sound (in other words I had to diagnose the car) it didn't get fixed. That was the last issue I had with this car.

Nice car! At least they didn’t joy ride it and add unnecessary miles.

 

[OLdchuck]

Dave is correct in that all makes can have issues and do. However, there is a reason why some makes are #1&2 in customer satisfaction and reliability and Ford does not make the top 10. Many premium brands do have factory trained techs with years experience before they are turned loose alone on a car. I have known Ford as well as Chevy places who have employed young guys who want to learn and after a brief tutoring session are turned loose to change a customer's oil. I am sure it happens at all makes' service debt's but I would would bet more when a dealership's average car is maybe $35,000 compared to a dealership whose average car cost $75,000 and has a shop rate double what the other dealer has. My point is that you have to pay to have good techs and some dealerships are not willing to pay to get the best just like they do not want to spend the money for a loaner..You get a loaner and I would say better techs at the premium brands' service departments however that does cost you in the end as well as when you buy the car....There is no free lunch...

 

[Mustang5ohMan]

Dave is correct in that all makes can have issues and do. However, there is a reason why some makes are #1&2 in customer satisfaction and reliability and Ford does not make the top 10. Many premium brands do have factory trained techs with years experience before they are turned loose alone on a car. I have known Ford as well as Chevy places who have employed young guys who want to learn and after a brief tutoring session are turned loose to change a customer's oil. I am sure it happens at all makes' service debt's but I would would bet more when a dealership's average car is maybe $35,000 compared to a dealership whose average car cost $75,000 and has a shop rate double what the other dealer has. My point is that you have to pay to have good techs and some dealerships are not willing to pay to get the best just like they do not want to spend the money for a loaner..You get a loaner and I would say better techs at the premium brands' service departments however that does cost you in the end as well as when you buy the car....There is no free lunch...

Yeah maybe a 50k MSRP Mustang is a cheap lunch.

 

[fmc_smt]

OK , been following this thread for a while, I'm chiming in . Not all dealers are the same , as noted . I am a smt , if you don't know what that means I'm sorry . I take a lot of pride in what I do , same dealer 30 plus years , third owner now . The flat rate thing is true , but ford does pay to diagnose stuff . The thing is you have to document everything , most techs are lazy and want the quick hit . If you want a service experience that leaves you satisfied, here are some pointers 1- Your not the only person with car troubles 2- Ask to talk to the the tech , be reasonable sometimes they can't be pulled off a job . 3- DON'T go in thinking you know it all , just because you read it on the Web . 4- Most dealerships will work with you if you lose the attitude , What I have to come come to realize is that most clients that walk threw our door are pissed . If you step back and think about it , the 3 bs come into factor . I didn't build it I didn't buy it and I sure as hell didn't brake it . With that said, most of the time if you go in with a different attitude you will get better results . Try it you may like it .

 

[Mustang5ohMan]

OK , been following this thread for a while, I'm chiming in . Not all dealers are the same , as noted . I am a smt , if you don't know what that means I'm sorry . I take a lot of pride in what I do , same dealer 30 plus years , third owner now . The flat rate thing is true , but ford does pay to diagnose stuff . The thing is you have to document everything , most techs are lazy and want the quick hit . If you want a service experience that leaves you satisfied, here are some pointers 1- Your not the only person with car troubles 2- Ask to talk to the the tech , be reasonable sometimes they can't be pulled off a job . 3- DON'T go in thinking you know it all , just because you read it on the Web . 4- Most dealerships will work with you if you lose the attitude , What I have to come come to realize is that most clients that walk threw our door are pissed . If you step back and think about it , the 3 bs come into factor . I didn't build it I didn't buy it and I sure as hell didn't brake it . With that said, most of the time if you go in with a different attitude you will get better results . Try it you may like it .

Attitude matters, who said anything about anyone that went in with an attitude. I’m nice, polite and professional. Even when I don’t get what I there (loaner) I don’t complain, or even ask to speak to the service manager which maybe I should... but I chalk it up to just searching for someone (dealer) who cares about the job they are doing like as you said taking pride in the work.

(you’re right about the SMT part, Senior Master Tech?)

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