Damn, stepped out on me for the first time today

[HoosierDaddy]

Drive a Big Block Olds 1970 442 and you'll REALLY learn QUICK just how easy a back end can get away from ya. Trust me.

Bad suspension and REALLY bad tires compared to now. I came across a '66 magazine test of a 435HP 427 Vette. It was slower to 60 MPH than a 2011 Mustang V6. Tires must have been made of greased stone back then.

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[Hack]

those limits change all the time.
.

This one statement in your post I agree with completely.

Driver mod sounds good, but did you hear how Lewis Hamilton crashed his daily recently? I realize all guys think they are excellent drivers, but none of us can claim to be as good as Hamilton... at least not with a straight face.

My point being - there's a limit to how much a driver can do.

To the OP, one other thing I didn't mention is that some sections of the road have features that contribute to low traction and easier loss of control. For instance, I travel on a bridge with metal expansion joints during my daily commute. I know I have to watch it there, so I do. Rather than garaging your car in inclement weather, figure out which specific areas you have to be extra careful in.

 

[sdiver68]

Drive a Big Block Olds 1970 442 and you'll REALLY learn QUICK just how easy a back end can get away from ya. Trust me.

Or a 1970s era Porsche 930.

 

[lsiunsuex]

Many here would benefit from finding an open, empty parking lot and sliding the car around a bit on a wet day. Shut every nanny off, and try some car-control. Learn where those limits are, and then understand that those limits change all the time.

Really should be a requirement of buying any new car - sports car or otherwise.

Side question - OP didn't say automatic or manual (this is a GT post so, manual?) but why isn't Snow / Wet available when in automatic / manual mode paddle shifting? The high rev downshifting exists on the automatic as well and in snow, can make things a bit crazy. I almost want to leave it in sport + when the weather is crappy, just so i can control the shift points myself.

 

[sdiver68]

Driver mod sounds good, but did you hear how Lewis Hamilton crashed his daily recently? I realize all guys think they are excellent drivers, but none of us can claim to be as good as Hamilton... at least not with a straight face.

Are you talking about his crash in Monaco? Yeah I'll put my skills up against a heavily intoxicated LH!

 

[Lonmon]

I had a couple scary step outs with the summer P-zero's on my 15 PP. They aren't meant for colder weather and I found them to be sometimes dangerous if you aren't really careful when its below 50*. They were pretty good in actual hot weather, just terrible in cold weather. I haven't had nearly as poor traction in any temp weather with my Nitto Nt05, or 555g2.

 

[Hack]

Are you talking about his crash in Monaco? Yeah I'll put my skills up against a heavily intoxicated LH!

According to the news article I read he wasn't intoxicated.

 

[sdiver68]

According to the news article I read he wasn't intoxicated.

Lewis himself stated the crash was a result of "heavy partying". True, he blew negative for alcohol but that doesn't clear him of every other possibility, even if brain imbalance due to extreme sleep deprivation.

Regardless, I'm up for the challenge.

 

[NoVaGT]

This one statement in your post I agree with completely.

Driver mod sounds good, but did you hear how Lewis Hamilton crashed his daily recently? I realize all guys think they are excellent drivers, but none of us can claim to be as good as Hamilton... at least not with a straight face.

My point being - there's a limit to how much a driver can do....

I'll disagree; it's 100% all about the driver, in reality. But with today's whiz-bang electronical systems that purport to be fool-proof, some drivers think they can do whatever they want with the controls of their vehicle, regardless of physics, and their car will sort it out.

I tell all drivers that want to get better; shut the freakin' nannies off and learn the limits of your vehicles, and how the vehicles responds at those limits. Safely, of course, which is why I suggested a wet, empty parking lot. You can do all sorts of stuff at sane speeds in that environment.

As far as L.H., no I didn't hear. Please share more? He was drunk?

 

[Deleted member 35644]

I tested the rain/snow mode during our last 3-day thunderstorm from a stop at an empty intersection. My impression is that it dulls throttle response, up to a certain point, and after about 50% throttle, it says "ok, I tried", and turns loose. At best, it keeps accidental wet wheelspin at bay from a stop as long as the driver is still using care. Doesn't sound like it does much to catch wet oversteer.

 

[sbrenskell]

I've put my 2018 in snow/wet mode. I HATE that mode. It made it feel worse (to me.) So back in normal it went. I've never used it sense.

 

[Austinj427]

And the the always stupid Pirelli comments. Glad to see your drinking all that interweb kool aid bullshit. Bothing wrong with em.

I'll bite.

They were absolute garbage on my 12GT, I learned that before I ever joined a Mustang forum.

Then when I got my 17GT I had completely forgotten about them being bad, they seemed fine, because the weather was fine. Then I drove them in the cold and it all came right back to me, they are absolute shit. They also suck on track, the window of where they have grip is unbelievably narrow. They are too cold for a half lap to push (even in summer) and by the time you have knocked out a second lap they are overheating and becoming greasy.

This is all personal experience.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Are you talking about his crash in Monaco? Yeah I'll put my skills up against a heavily intoxicated LH!

He crashed his $2M supercar in Monaco where he lives in the middle of the night all by his lonesome. Dry roads. No other car or person involved. No drugs or alcohol, but I guess you can't absolutely rule out police falsifying that in the reports. But he's not unique other than maybe the $ value. LOTS of Formula One drivers have crashed their road cars stone sober. Like all of us, at one time or another they believe they know the precise amount of grip that is going to be available under each tire. The greater the skills, the more often those beliefs are tested. There is not enough skill in the world to beat those odds forever.

 

[BmacIL]

Pirelli Pzeros are decent on the track and in HOT weather. Outside of that, they're a mediocre summer tire. Outclassed in every way by Michelin's last two offerings, as well as the Conti ExtremeContact Sport, and also outclassed in everything but track performance by tires like the Firestone Indy 500. Excellent decision by Ford to equip the PP cars with PS4S rubber.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Yeah its good to learn the limits of a car and yourself, if for no other reason than no nanny will save you if you enter that 30MPH (at 1G) turn at 120MPH.

But the nannies will beat the best humans on average and that is why they should NOT be turned off on public roads. Its been tested, humans can not react as quickly with their senses than a computer can to the sensors. So they have a head start and time is distance you may not have. Plus they can modulate traction at each wheel separately. A human would need 3 extra legs and brake pedals to do that.

Tests with top race drivers showed that once they had adjusted to an unknown road surface and achieved maximum deceleration, they could indeed generate higher Gs than nannies. The problem was, they had lost so much time getting to that point, the computer ended up with a better average stopping G. And I am talking about some of the very first ABS systems. Humans have not evolved much in the few decades since then and computers have just gotten better.

Throw in changing road conditions over a stop and the nannies win by a landslide because even the best human has to go thru that whole process of adjusting to that new condition every time it changed. Hell, not nanny related but it illustrates the weakness of humans, there was a test done in Canada before or right about the time ABS came along that showed below 45 or so, just stomping on the brakes and locking them up made for a faster stop than professional racers could do the PRO way. If you do track driving you may know you can haul speed down pretty damn quick. Maybe even beat the nannies, but that situation doesn't exist on the street. When you have to do an emergency stop, you are not prepared for that (see definition of emergency) AND even more important, you have practiced that exact same deceleration lap after lap on a manicured surface. On the street, if there is loose sand, or spilled ATF, or ???, you don't have a chance against the nannies.

Turning off the nannies on public roads to help you learn the limits is stupid. And if you are not pushing the limits, what are you learning and what difference does it make if the nannies are on.

John Henry was not a real person. And even if he was, it still killed him to beat the machine.

Learn the limits of yourself and car off public roads. They come in handy if the nannies fail on the road and they are a hell of a lot of fun on the track. But on the road, the nannies will improve the odds you make it to where you are going.

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