Curbed My Mustang

[Pa-fatboy]

I'm going to confess to my lack of good judgement and poor driving skills I demonstrated yesterday. Good News: I was the only person involved, I did not damage anyone's property and I did not hurt anyone other than my ego.

I have driven that space of asphalt for 2 years, daily, M-F. First in my 2014 Mustang, then in my 2016 Mustang.

Wait... occasionally in a 2007 BMW 328 xi I had before the Mustangs...

As I was exiting the turn, I was rolling on the throttle and the backend swung out to the left maybe 4 feet in an instant. If felt like that wheels spun. I say that because for that instant I felt like I was on ice. At the time, I was accelerating as I was just past the apex. The contact sensation totally vanished. With that 4 foot slide, it was enough to move the car 6-8 feet right. Which unfortunately was over a curb and onto some grass. Just my right side jumped the curb. The left tires stayed on the pavement.

What jumped into my head at that time was the image of NASCAR's spinning on grass when they make contact with it.

I just thought 'don't over correct. don't do it'. I just let the throttle sit at idle while steering to straighten the car, then gently steered left to pop back on the road.

I recurbed it with this maneuver. After than it was driving slowly to a nice clear area and taking inventory.

Question 1: As a learning point, those of you that track your cars... what could I have done differently after the rear end broke loose? The obvious answer is not to roll the throttle on. After the rear end kicked please!

Question 2: This only occurred to me as I wrote this message. Any thoughts that the rear tire blew just BEFORE the rear end broke loose? Like I said, I drive that corner daily. Hey, ANYTHING to not blame myself, right?

I suppose I deserved this, I had to wait five and a half hours for a tow truck. That was pure torture.

The front right wheel and tire are okay. The rim has a scratch on it, but it still has air in it.

The right rear tire has a 3 inch tear in it. No Fix-a-Flat spray can would fix that!

Question 3: This is the main reason for this post and the reason it is in the Tire and Wheel section. I need at least one new tire. I have the original tires on the car still. The car has 20K on it. But, those tires have been stored for the past two winters for 4 months. I have owner this Mustang for 21 Months. Given Winter Tire time, I'm roughly calculating the OEM tires have 12,500 miles on them. +/- 2,000 miles for guessing.

I do have financial considerations right now.

What do you guys think or recommend I do to get my Mustang back on the road?

I did pick up for lightly used rims yesterday while waiting for the tow truck. I'm heading out in 2 minutes to pick them up.

I could keep using the three good OEM tires and buy one new one. I've always heard you should at lead buy two. I'm having a brain freeze on the brand / model of the OEM tires. It's the one's everyone complains about.

Or, I could buy 4 new tires and mount them on the new rims. I was looking on AmericanMuscle, it looks like I might be able to get 4 new tires for nearly the price of two OEM's.

Thoughts? Other ideas?

I will be mounting my winter tires to get back on the road. In this heat, they will not last long. I need to fix this ASAP. I know you guys will have some great ideas / advice for me! Thanks in advance!

Driving lessons too!

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[NightmareMoon]

Once the rear goes, the mistake has been made, just about all you can do is catch it.

Not unwinding the wheel before (or just as) you add power is the most common cause. If you habitually hold steering and add throttle, at some point you're going to loose the rear.

A practiced driver can feel it reach the limit and maybe catch it quicker with only a minor slide, but yeah theres a reason to pick the corners to play on away from curbs and other traffic.

Sure its possible you had low air pressure or even picked up a puncture or something that contributed. I was following a guy in a VW doewn some twisties (so I had his car on camera) and Im oretty sure he was developing a flat moments before he lost the rear and nearly hit a rock wall. Hard to do in a FWD car.

 

[West TX GT]

Don't get the oem tires again, they are rubbish. Get something stickier. Might have saved your ass if you already had them but nothing beats experience. There are plenty of cheaper tires that are much better. Tirerack or discount tire are good places to check.

 

[Paul@PKAUTODESIGN]

I would recommend go with something a bit better as a tire for you, as for driving im not a pro but normally as stated above the rear end slides out hold on for the ride and try to catch it as best as possible.

Normally its driving and feeling the car how she acts and if its noticeable I get off the hard throttle and just maneuver.

 

[wildcatgoal]

I spun out at AMP (on video in my build log somewhere) and basically just turned into it quick to make the circle as small as I could and once I was facing the other way (thankfully clear of traffic), stopped the car. This was a very rapid but conscious effort... but there was certainly some luck -- there always is. After my first track day, basically killed off my OEM Pirelli tires in "skid pads" (a real one but mostly big cul de sacs) feeling out where and how it slips and spins on me (and also getting an idea of how to combat understeer with throttle, etc.). It's worth doing this before you change out tires (just do so legally, if you can, and most certainly safely (with nobody and no curbs around).

You cannot hold the steering wheel like an ape, you have to drive to where you want to go and you're actions will have to be fast but airy and light and you may benefit from letting the steering wheel turn itself it it's wanting to (where appropriate). It's finess and very few people are truly good at it when it happens unexpectedly. Especially with 435 hp.

This "I can't feel what it's doing" issue is why I spent so much time and money bolstering up my IRS with bearings and stiffer bushings from Steeda (or pick your company of choice). The GTPP may be about to go around a track faster than a Boss 302 but I'd rather have the Boss because I would be able to feel WTF is happening in one of those.

And yeah, your tire could have been low or just blew which would cause the car to just eat it... it happens.

 

[Pa-fatboy]

Wildcatgoal and Nightmaremoon, thanks for driving feedback. Wildcat, funny you should mention the bearing and bushing updates. They are sitting in my garage waiting to go on. I also have 4 items waiting to strengthen frame. Including the engine bay strut tower brace and the metal replacement for the plastic cowl brace that tucks up near the windshield wipers. I'll get as much of this on today as I have time for. I do have new bolts for the strut tower brace. Sounds like those pieces might have helped along with stickier tires. Boy to mention not hanging on the steering wheel like an ape. Not being sarcastic... that was probably me. I've been practicing heel and toe driving for years and haven't got the feel for it yet! I know I'd get faster lap times if I could do it. My guts outdrive my ability!

 

[AZStang]

Just release the throttle the instant you feel loose, and the car will correct itself quickly. It's worked every time I've done it.

And I agree with others stating to upgrade your rubber. There really are better tires for much less. Before my current setup I went from P Zeros to a Sumitomo that was much cheaper, and to be honest it performed much better across the board.

I have MT Street Comps now , and while they're a good tire, I would buy the Sumitomo if I could go back.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Just release the throttle the instant you feel loose, and the car will correct itself quickly. It's worked every time I've done it.

And I agree with others stating to upgrade your rubber. There really are better tires for much less. Before my current setup I went from P Zeros to a Sumitomo that was much cheaper, and to be honest it performed much better across the board.

I have MT Street Comps now , and while they're a good tire, I would buy the Sumitomo if I could go back.

Its true the stock PZeros do seem to grip well until they don't. When they loose it they tend to loose it quick. Some of the other options are a bit more progressive at the limit, even if that means a lower peak grip.

Basically there are two kinds of oversteer: lift-off oversteer and power oversteer. With power oversteer (which is what it sounds like you did), it starts when you increase the throttle in a corner. If you immediately cut throttle to where it was before the slide started, that should 'fix' it. Lifting entirely may cause you to go into...

Lift-off oversteer. With lift-off oversteer, you lift off the gas or tap the brake and the rear starts to go. In that case you need to get back on the gas, because it was the weight transfer from slowing down that caused the rear to loose grip. That's the scarier situation, because your instincts probably told you to slow down in the first place, and now you have to "speed up" to save it. It takes some getting used to.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Squeeze a bit more gently into the throttle (always, on the street), lift a little more gently when lifting at all is necessary. You don't want to have engine compression braking continuing to slow the rear wheels down once they've started to come unstuck.

You could have had a tire going down on you, possibly a little faster than the TPMS picks up on right away. One thing I can tell you here is that if you mount tires on rims out around the max width for that size that the car retains better controllabilty in the situation where one rear tire loses pressure.


Norm

 

[Pa-fatboy]

Hello All,

I'm posting this again. I have brand new Nitto NT 555's in my possession and am ready to install on my Mustang.


I'm posting now about additional damage that might have been caused? I am scheduling with my Ford dealer and not my hot rod shop.


The hit on the curb was at about ~40 mph +/- 5mph, right front first at a nearly parallel smack. The front of the wheel hit first, with the rear of the wheel being about 5-6 inches behind. Same with the right rear.


I do have the OEM front summer tires and my snow tires in the rear.


At 65mph, the steering wheel feels stable, no shaking. It is about 1/2 inch off center, leaning towards the right.


I'm wondering about damage as it feels very unstable. I took the wheels off and looked for signs of damage. Anything fresh, or looking odd. It looked fine. Accelerating in a straight line, with a gentle roll on of the throttle, it hooks up, settles down and pulls. (Pushes?).


When I'm in a turn, normal driving speeds, any change in road makes the car turn in or out suddenly. Simply changing lanes on the highway, driving over the painted lines causes the car to feel unstable. I'm pretty sure others drivers can see it twitch. It has the same twich at 20mph. I actually made a steering correction.


Bearings? Hubs? Tie rods? A really long time ago I was driving on ice and was turning left in a Ford Escort. On the ice, at about 5mph, I bumped into a curb straight on with the wheels turned. That damaged the frame, car was crap from then on.


Thoughts?

 

[jasonstang]

yea 40mph curbing is pretty fast. You probably bent something. I would put it on an alignment machine and have them go over all the suspension parts.
Did you have the nannies turned off when you spun out? I have never got mine to misbehave like yours did with nannies on. Most of the time when I give it full throttle in a corner it would start drifting then the nannies would catch it and bring everything down. No drama what so ever.

 

[Spykexx]

I second the alignment, especially at 40mph. That's a LOT of force very quickly, and can easily bend or break something. At that speed if your tire had blown that wheel would be complete trash.

Also note...be weary of those snow tires on the rear. You'll eat those up REAL quick in the summer, and traction is going to be even worse.

I've noticed in a turn, my TCS does NOTHING. I can whip it as hard as I want and it won't do squat, but in a straight line it eats it every time lol.

 

[wildcatgoal]

You had to have bent one or more of the suspension components (arms) or damaged a ball joint (not visibly). The dealer should be able to identify which. This can be fixed unless you somehow bent the frame of the vehicle, which would be surprising.

 

[bam88]

Another thing that really works for catching oversteer is to push in the clutch, wheels stop rotating and then scrub your speed. Have done this many many times while rallycrossing and ice racing rwd vehicles, I would feel the car pass the point of no return and push the clutch and car comes back under control. Even saved an MR2 doing this when the car had spun 180 degrees instantly on the straight while ice racing, full counter steer and pushed in the clutch and car came back before the next corner.

At that speed I guarantee one or more suspension parts are bent or broken, alignment and a proper tech will be able to find the bad parts.

 

[CarlosMRRDesignWheels]

Hello All,

I'm posting this again. I have brand new Nitto NT 555's in my possession and am ready to install on my Mustang.


I'm posting now about additional damage that might have been caused? I am scheduling with my Ford dealer and not my hot rod shop.


The hit on the curb was at about ~40 mph +/- 5mph, right front first at a nearly parallel smack. The front of the wheel hit first, with the rear of the wheel being about 5-6 inches behind. Same with the right rear.


I do have the OEM front summer tires and my snow tires in the rear.


At 65mph, the steering wheel feels stable, no shaking. It is about 1/2 inch off center, leaning towards the right.


I'm wondering about damage as it feels very unstable. I took the wheels off and looked for signs of damage. Anything fresh, or looking odd. It looked fine. Accelerating in a straight line, with a gentle roll on of the throttle, it hooks up, settles down and pulls. (Pushes?).


When I'm in a turn, normal driving speeds, any change in road makes the car turn in or out suddenly. Simply changing lanes on the highway, driving over the painted lines causes the car to feel unstable. I'm pretty sure others drivers can see it twitch. It has the same twich at 20mph. I actually made a steering correction.


Bearings? Hubs? Tie rods? A really long time ago I was driving on ice and was turning left in a Ford Escort. On the ice, at about 5mph, I bumped into a curb straight on with the wheels turned. That damaged the frame, car was crap from then on.


Thoughts?

did you ever make a choice on your wheels???
as in did you get some OE wheels again ??

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