Clutch Line Upgrade?

[altjx]

So I'm all about making it as easy as possible to shift in this car. First manual, shifting under WOT requires a bit more effort than the car being turned off / standstill, etc (all normal I suppose).

I was discussing upgrading my clutch line with a friend earlier and it seems like it would have some pretty positive effects. However, I don't see any available for these cars, only the GT. Has anyone found one for the GT350 or have any input on this?

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[MrCincinnati]

When you say it takes more effort to shift at WOT, what do you mean, exactly? More force?

 

[altjx]

When you say it takes more effort to shift at WOT, what do you mean, exactly? More force?

Yep. Just to be clear too I don't necessarily mean I have to force it into gear. I have a new transmission and the old one plus another friend's car is the same way. It just doesn't slip out and slip into the next gear extremely easily like it would if you got into your car right now with it off. I know I can't get it to slip "that easy" but if I could use any less effort to shift under WOT, that'd be nice.

 

[MrCincinnati]

That’s interesting. I never noticed it taking more force, but at WOT I’m likely naturally shifting it more forcefully. Hmm I’ll have to see if I notice it next time.

 

[altjx]

That’s interesting. I never noticed it taking more force, but at WOT I’m likely naturally shifting it more forcefully. Hmm I’ll have to see if I notice it next time.

Yeah I think that's the case for me too, but I think sometimes I'm a little more nervous to shift "faster" than I do now because I feel like I might not get it in gear if I try any faster due to the extra amount of effort required. If that makes sense.

 

[MrCincinnati]

It is a little notchy. You mentioned it’s your first manual.
If you’re not already, allow the shifter to fall naturally to the center for a 2-3 shift. Pop it out of 2nd, ease off your grip slightly for a split second then push straight forward. The shifter will find dead center on its own. For 1-2 3-4 it’s straight down obvs. 4-5 at wot is trickier but if you’re WOT 4-5 you’re flying so not really somewhere you want to be without being really familiar.

 

[altjx]

It is a little notchy. You mentioned it’s your first manual.
If you’re not already, allow the shifter to fall naturally to the center for a 2-3 shift. Pop it out of 2nd, ease off your grip slightly for a split second then push straight forward. The shifter will find dead center on its own. For 1-2 3-4 it’s straight down obvs. 4-5 at wot is trickier but if you’re WOT 4-5 you’re flying so not really somewhere you want to be without being really familiar.

Hmm yeah it seems like 2nd -> 3rd -> 4th -> 5th is pretty decent, but man 1st to 2nd is a bit iffy. Can't get them as fast. Not sure if it's just because it's naturally faster to go from center (3rd) to 4th (center) vs trying to keep it to the left from 1st to 2nd.

 

[JAJ]

1 to 2 is the worst shift in the box. I'm trying different gear oils to see which ones work and which ones don't. The test is "can I beat the synchro's" and the answer so far has been yes for most shifts, but 1 to 2 is the hardest.

 

[altjx]

1 to 2 is the worst shift in the box. I'm trying different gear oils to see which ones work and which ones don't. The test is "can I beat the synchro's" and the answer so far has been yes for most shifts, but 1 to 2 is the hardest.

Gotcha. Very interesting to know it's not just me.

 

[Trackaholic]

My 1-2 is tricky when cold and with low revs, but is much easier when the revs are a little higher 4K RPM or so. Car seems to shift better when driving harder for me.

What exactly do you think a new clutch line will do to improve things? IMO the shifting notchiness is related to the syncros, not the clutch.

-T

 

[cking]

https://lmr.com/products/2015-Mustang-Clutch-Kits

You will find multiple clutch line upgrades

Seems the little 1/8" ID plastic line stretches and lot more when hot, you can also add bleeder

http://www.ramclutches.com/pedaladjuster.html

pedal adjuster also.

When I put my autoblip on I will fix leaky reservoir line, steada spring, pedal adjuster and stainless lines. SPR pedals

Look carefully two different ID'S available

Already did MGW Shifter

 

[Zombo]

I'll assume you are not shifting with a WOT, but are depressing the clutch and letting off the throttle during shifts; that when you refer to WOT shifting, you really mean shifting at high RPM, which would be the natural result of shifting while employing a WOT.

If this is the case, the 1 to 2 shift will have a tendency to be the most difficult. This is because the 1-2 gear ratios have the greatest spread (or % difference) within the gearbox, meaning the RPM drop on the input shaft (at a given RPM) is the greatest when making this shift. This requires the syncro, which is there to facilitate this RPM drop, to work harder and harder, the higher the RPM is at the shift point (because the RPM drop increases). If you want to get a sense how hard the syncro works, drive in 2nd at 25mph and shift into first (don't worry, you won't blow up anything, but you'll clearly feel the increased shift effort).

Being cut from the more road racing cloth (as apposed to drag racing) I've always been extra respectful for gearboxes, realizing that they are generally to most fragile part of the drivetrain. I would suggest focusing on being smooth and deliberate with your shifts first, and worry about speed later, if ever.

Also, I might help to understand how a modern syncro-mesh gearbox works to begin with. There are several youtube videos out there which give good insight.

 

[l'Ingegnere]

If this is the case, the 1 to 2 shift will have a tendency to be the most difficult. This is because the 1-2 gear ratios have the greatest spread (or % difference) within the gearbox, meaning the RPM drop on the input shaft (at a given RPM) is the greatest when making this shift. This requires the syncro, which is there to facilitate this RPM drop, to work harder and harder, the higher the RPM is at the shift point (because the RPM drop increases). If you want to get a sense how hard the syncro works, drive in 2nd at 25mph and shift into first (don't worry, you won't blow up anything, but you'll clearly feel the increased shift effort).

Just what I was going to post after reading the OP.

 

[Tank]

Being cut from the more road racing cloth (as apposed to drag racing) I've always been extra respectful for gearboxes, realizing that they are generally to most fragile part of the drivetrain. I would suggest focusing on being smooth and deliberate with your shifts first, and worry about speed later, if ever.

+2 with your other points [MENTION=22916]Zombo[/MENTION]. Re: bolded point above, instructors at the TA likened smooth shifting to a half filled bottle of water on its side- the task/analogy was to keep the water/car level and not slosh back and forth as your going through the gears. Happy Motoring:cheers:

 

[JAJ]

My 1-2 is tricky when cold and with low revs, but is much easier when the revs are a little higher 4K RPM or so. Car seems to shift better when driving harder for me.

[...] IMO the shifting notchiness is related to the syncros, not the clutch.

-T

The GT350 gearbox shift feel has two components - the detent is the one you should feel and the completion of rotation speed matching is the one you shouldn't feel.

If you move the shifter fast enough, you'll feel both. The rotation match is that second "click" that comes as the shift lever ends its travel. If you move more slowly and deliberately, the synchro's will have matched the rotation speeds of the gears and you'll only feel the detent as the shift completes.

What I've been looking for in the various fluids I've tried is a friction level that gives detent-only shifting at reasonable shift speeds. I tend to shift gently and deliberately - 40+ years of driving MT's makes you that way.

The reason I'm looking for a new fluid is that the Mercon LV fluid doesn't produce smooth shifts often enough for me. I don't know if others have noticed, but it occasionally fights going into gear on the first push, but if you ease off pressure a bit and then push again, it goes right in on the second try. 1 > 2 is the worst for this, but 2 > 3 and 4 > 5 do it too. Generally, downshifting works pretty well.

And, I've found fluids that are much better than Mercon LV, and some of them took me by surprise. RP Synchromax has been crap when I've tried it before, but it's a treat in the TR3160. And while it's a big improvement over Mercon LV, it's not the best.

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