Anybody Familiar with Ford Buyback Options

[disneyfun1]

I have some questions and hope someone can answer. I already own a 2018 Mustang, been on the forums a long time. My car is fine so far. The problems is my wifes 2018 Fusion Energi (plug in ) car. The sync 3 system was fine the first year we had it, then it started going out. they just replaced the APIM for the second time. I have been talking to ford on the phone and have a case number. She called yesterday and said we are now eligible for buy back or replacement and will send it to that dept and I should hear from them in a few days.

We want to do a replacement only. From what I've read, is had to be MSRP to MSRP or at least very close. Well upon looking online, the new 2019 Fusion Energi fully load like ours(though the new one is missing a couple features we like) is about 4000 lower in cost now the way they package them. Do I have any chance of them approving that, getting the same car or does the price have to be really close?

Next question, the only Fusion close to our MSRP is the 2019 Fusion Sport, which is what we traded in the get the energi, so we know how nice and fast it is and the MSRP is only 35 difference (higher) than our car is. While its nice, my wife drives 85 miles a day to work and back, that's why she go the plug in fusion. the gas in that would cost a fortune compared to what we pay now. Is that our only option though since the new energi model is so much lower in price that we cant get one at all?? She already has had a mustang for herself and it not practical for her to go to work in and needs the bigger size, and also does not want an Edge or Escape or anything.

Another question, We have 0% interest on her fusion. Does that mean we have to get them to pay the loan off and get a new one and we wont get 0% percent again because its not offered on the fusion at this time? Also, we have to qualify all over again for a new loan?? we had some medical issues and our credit went down in the last year but we have never missed a house payment or car payment through ford credit at all and have had approx. 10 loans with them in the last 5 years all perfect history, but our scores are low right now. Are we just out of luck or they may help us out? And if going with MSRP price, we would have approx. 10K on paper for a down payment based on what we owe, so would that much down help?

just not sure what to expect as far as getting her the car she wants again and thinking they probably wont approve it since its so much lower in price now(which is really strange!!) We have the Energi platinum which was about 41K and the new energi only comes in titanium model at about 37K with the only option we can even add on is the sunroof and her white pearl paint we have now.

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[Cobra Jet]

I have some questions and hope someone can answer. I already own a 2018 Mustang, been on the forums a long time. My car is fine so far. The problems is my wifes 2018 Fusion Energi (plug in ) car. The sync 3 system was fine the first year we had it, then it started going out. they just replaced the APIM for the second time. I have been talking to ford on the phone and have a case number. She called yesterday and said we are now eligible for buy back or replacement and will send it to that dept and I should hear from them in a few days.

We want to do a replacement only. From what I've read, is had to be MSRP to MSRP or at least very close. Well upon looking online, the new 2019 Fusion Energi fully load like ours(though the new one is missing a couple features we like) is about 4000 lower in cost now the way they package them. Do I have any chance of them approving that, getting the same car or does the price have to be really close?

Next question, the only Fusion close to our MSRP is the 2019 Fusion Sport, which is what we traded in the get the energi, so we know how nice and fast it is and the MSRP is only 35 difference (higher) than our car is. While its nice, my wife drives 85 miles a day to work and back, that's why she go the plug in fusion. the gas in that would cost a fortune compared to what we pay now. Is that our only option though since the new energi model is so much lower in price that we cant get one at all?? She already has had a mustang for herself and it not practical for her to go to work in and needs the bigger size, and also does not want an Edge or Escape or anything.

Another question, We have 0% interest on her fusion. Does that mean we have to get them to pay the loan off and get a new one and we wont get 0% percent again because its not offered on the fusion at this time? Also, we have to qualify all over again for a new loan?? we had some medical issues and our credit went down in the last year but we have never missed a house payment or car payment through ford credit at all and have had approx. 10 loans with them in the last 5 years all perfect history, but our scores are low right now. Are we just out of luck or they may help us out? And if going with MSRP price, we would have approx. 10K on paper for a down payment based on what we owe, so would that much down help?

just not sure what to expect as far as getting her the car she wants again and thinking they probably wont approve it since its so much lower in price now(which is really strange!!) We have the Energi platinum which was about 41K and the new energi only comes in titanium model at about 37K with the only option we can even add on is the sunroof and her white pearl paint we have now.

Sorry to hear of the troubles, but here’s some answers that may help.

You are correct in what you have read about the Buy Back program regarding a swap of collateral (opting to get another Ford replacement).

So yes, it’s MSRP to MSRP. When I went through the process, I was told by Ford RAV that the replacement vehicle can be any NEW Ford product, does not have to be the same model as the “Lemon”.

RAV does not assist in picking out or acquiring another Ford product for you - all they are is the “approver and paper pusher” in the whole process. They recommend you go to your local Ford Dealership and work with a Salesperson at that location. The Ford Dealership acts as the middle person between you and RAV in helping to get the vehicle replacement. If there is not a replacement Ford on that lot or any lots near you that meet your criteria, you can ask your Salesperson to do a radius search (100-500 miles). If nothing shows up again, then you can ask them to do a country wide search.

If there is a vehicle located at another Dealer, your Dealership brokers a deal with them and the car is shipped to your local Dealership (no cost to you).

So you say you found (2) vehicles:
1) Over your MSRP by $35.00; you can ask Ford RAV to waive that $35.... they should.

2) Under your original MSRP by $4k. Ford RAV might refund that delta back to you (OR apply it to the new loan) but that is only a guess. You may need to ask your RAV Rep about that and how they handle a swap of collateral when the replacement vehicle MSRP is lower. ***If you get an answer about this, do post back to educate others***

Regarding the loan:
How the loan is handled depends on your lending institution. With Buy Backs, some lenders will do paperwork revisions for correcting the collateral info and VIN and no loan terms are affected. Other Lenders require a complete payoff of the existing loan and a new loan is then opened.

As far as interest rates etc - that is decided by your lending institution. If they have to payoff the existing loan, in most instances they will have to run another credit check as it’s mandatory nearly everywhere. You might be able to ask them if they can waive doing the credit check since you have dealt with them for quite some time, but it’s up to their policies and procedures.

As I have recommended to everyone going through this process, research your State Lemon Laws regarding Buy Backs, because every State has different provisions. Some States require mileage usage fees, others don’t. The mileage use fee starts from the initial report of the problem - so if the car now has 30k on it and at the initial report the car had only 2k on it, the mileage penalty is based on the 2k, NOT the total accrued mileage.

Some states also have other fees that you could be responsible for such as sale tax (which would only apply IF the delta between MSRP is higher, so you would only owe the difference in sales tax previously paid and what needs to be paid). Some stares have DMV fees, title fees, etc. these are State fees, so regardless of RAV Buy Back processes, Ford does not deviate from State Lemon Laws and has absolutely no control over State mandated penalties or fees and cannot waive them.

So it’s imperative you know those fees and what you might owe.

RAV does not deal with those misc State fees and they won’t be included in their work up. They only give you a worksheet that will contain:
Original MSRP
Pay Off amount (Money owed on existing loan)
Mileage penalty fee
New MSRP
Total Due

The fees will be applied and added to your new vehicle invoice at the Dealership at the time of swapping collateral and signing of all the new docs. The Dealership has a copy of the RAV worksheet and they take the numbers from it, input those into the new vehicle invoice and then apply the other fees to get to a total figure.

So think of it like this in simplest terms:
Original MSRP - $10k
New MSRP - $12k
Delta - $2k
Money Owed on Loan - $5k
Total Fees (mileage if applicable, State tax, doc fees, DMV, etc) - $500.00
Total Due (New Loan Amt): $7500.00

If MSRP was equal:
Original MSRP - $10k
New MSRP - $10k
Delta - $0.00
Money Owed on Loan - $5k
Total Fees (mileage if applicable, State tax, doc fees, DMV, etc) - $300.00
Total Due (New Loan Amt): $5300.00

***Loan interest rate not included in above examples; to be determined by Lending Institution.

Again as far as State Sales Tax, if the delta was $2k between MSRP’s like example 1, you would only owe Sales Tax on $2k, NOT the $12k.


Hopefully the above helps. Feel free to post up any more questions.

 

[disneyfun1]

thanks for all the info. i did happen to call ford credit this morning since they are the lender. On the phone, she said if we are swapping it out by ford, the loan will stay the same and they will get the new vin from the dealer, keep same terms and interest rate. i hope that is true! she said if over the amount, i would have to pay that, again, in my case i know we would not be getting anything thousands more, so an even swap is right there for them. i will have to ask ford about getting an energi that is less priced and see what they say, but its not as equipped as ours any longer-no auto parking feature or front sensors and we may just go back the sport again which does include those for the $35. Do you know if they give me full credit for the extended warranty we bought and then start it over on the new car? ill post any answers i get in the near future once they actually call me soon and update the process.

 

[Cobra Jet]

If you had purchased a Ford ESP Warranty plan, you should mention that to your RAV Rep; it could work 1 of 2 ways:

1) they refund the cost of the ESP warranty and you keep the $$$ or repurchase a new plan
2) they transfer the existing ESP warranty to the replacement vehicle

That’s another question you will have to ask them. If everything was originally done through Ford Credit, maybe they just transfer the warranty, I’m not really sure.

 

[disneyfun1]

Does anyone know where I can find out if AZ charges mileage fee if doing a replacement? I cant seem to find it anyplace.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Does anyone know where I can find out if AZ charges mileage fee if doing a replacement? I cant seem to find it anyplace.

Maybe these links will be helpful for Arizona:

BBB Autoline for AZ:
https://www.bbb.org/us/Storage/16/Documents/BBBAutoLine/AZ-LLsummary.pdf

On page (4) of the above linked doc, it’s stated:

Less a reasonable allowance for the consumer’s use of the vehicle.

Refunds must be made to the consumer and lienholder, if any, as their interests may appear.

The reasonable allowance for use is that amount directly attributable to use by the consumer before the first written report of the nonconformity to the manufacturer, its agent or dealer, and during any subsequent period when the vehicle is not out of service by reason of repair.

AZ Attorney General:
https://www.azag.gov/consumer/auto

Misc AZ doc:
https://www.luke.af.mil/Portals/58/Documents/Buying a Car in Arizona (Aug 15).pdf?ver=2016-02-16-182025-190


In the first link for the BBB Autoline doc above, if the clause was there for actual mileage fee penalty it would be spelled out very clearly such as providing a calculation so the vehicle owner could determine the approximate penalty $$$.

It’s quite possible the user reading that doc can interpret it as the decision is left up to Ford for any such penalty.

I would call your Attny Gen. and inquire to see if there is such a penalty and explain that their site and the BBB Autoline is not very clear.

 

[disneyfun1]

thanks for finding those links. it also appears on page 4 that since we are dong a replacement car, we should not have to pay. still waiting for Ford to call us about how to start this. REPLACEMENT When replacing a vehicle under the Arizona lemon law, the manufacturer must provide a new motor vehicle. The reasonable allowance for use appears not to apply to a replacement.

 

[20mustang16]

I have. a 2019 gt pp2 mustang as yesterday I have gotten my letter from Ford to agree to do a buy back or replacement I'm going to choose the refund buy back route , I live in California and I put a large down on this car and had added some Items before the car went south , I do have all my receipts for them going through this process will they pay me for those items I added ? Mind u this car had 337 miles on it going into the shop today is day 71 that is been in the shop also I've made 3 car payments and the dealership has drove it 157 miles trying to figure out the problem part of the delay was availability of parts on back order for a transmission a shift shaft and a sensor they ordered like 3 time and could not get then they tried to get a whole transmission MT82 that too was not available either ,so fast forward to last Friday they called me and said a new transmission came from Detroit were going to install it on Friday and Saturday will have it ready on Monday I was ok give a try knowing that this car has multiple issues besides the transmission, Monday comes around and the dealership texted me and said they have to bleed the clutch it might be another day so I said fine I just want get my car back when it's done, 3 minutes after that conversation my Ford pass connect on my phone which is full of documented times and dates of all the warnings going off alerts me that multiple issues warnings are going off on my car so I texted my service writer and she said the quality control person was in my car test driving it he's not back yet so I proceed to the dealership to see what's going on and sure enough all the dash warnings from the airbag, hill asset, blind spot, and engine misfire came on when he was driving it ,this is the reason took it in the first place . So that being said the Car OTD was$ 55.000 I but down 35,000 cash put 4100.00 in items on the car and have a existing loan on it for 15,000 and pay 3 payments while I've been waiting for the parts ,bottom line I just want what I invested in this car nothing more back then I can decide if I want another Ford product any advice or insite on the this would greatly appreciated.

 

[Cobra Jet]

As for your aftermarket parts - that’s on you. It’s up to you to R&R them and if it cost you shop/labor time for the R&R, that’s on you too.

IF you remove an aftermarket part, you have to replace it with the stock part (example: you installed an air box and cat back exhaust - if you want it, you have to put the stock parts back on).

There is a RAV inspection process the Dealer who is handling the RAV Buy Back has to adhere to per Ford RAV instructions. If there’s any missing parts or damages to the collateral being returned, you are responsible for those costs and that either gets deducted from your refund or you have to front the cash during time of returning the vehicle to the Dealership. If there are damages, there is a RAV damages document as to what is and is not a acceptable damage. If the damage is outside of being “acceptable”, the owner is on the hook for paying Ford retail parts prices and/or Ford shop labor and cost of repairs.

You can try to get RAV to figure in the fair market costs of any add-on you did to the vehicle, but there’s no guarantee they will even entertain it.

Any car payments made etc - that all gets figured into the RAV Worksheet for the cash refund (or vehicle replacement if swapping into another Ford).

You’re still responsible for all costs for the vehicle up until the day you turn it back over to Ford. Do not stop paying car payments, insurance, maintenance (if applicable)...

Be sure to know your Home State Lemon Law and see if there’s any usage fee penalties - that applies only in certain States, as the LL is different in every State. Ford adheres to the State LL’s and does not deviate from it. Whatever is mandated by the State LL guidelines, Ford has to follow it.

Hope that helps some.

 

[20mustang16]

well that sucks i will still ask about it when the RAV person calls me to explain there process should i call the BBB in my area to get the lemon laws policy in California ? also the dealership has my car there as i said before they tryied to repair it and its still failed , so they tell me i have to leave it there because all the codes and its unsafe to drive, so that being said i had go by there this morning to get some items from my car and the tech who ever that maybe kicked the crap out of my drivers door panel with there boots i took pictures and notified the service manager right away , he just played dumb of course so at this point do i leave it there or take it home tell this process is over , its a brand new car the more it stays there the more things are going to be damaged then i will have to deal with that too!

 

[Cobra Jet]

well that sucks i will still ask about it when the RAV person calls me to explain there process should i call the BBB in my area to get the lemon laws policy in California ? also the dealership has my car there as i said before they tryied to repair it and its still failed , so they tell me i have to leave it there because all the codes and its unsafe to drive, so that being said i had go by there this morning to get some items from my car and the tech who ever that maybe kicked the crap out of my drivers door panel with there boots i took pictures and notified the service manager right away , he just played dumb of course so at this point do i leave it there or take it home tell this process is over , its a brand new car the more it stays there the more things are going to be damaged then i will have to deal with that too!

Here’s everything you need to know about your Home State’s Lemon Law (California):
https://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/englemn.pdf#7

And

https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/cars

Don’t rely on the info on the BBB Website (*anyone). The most accurate and up to date information regarding Lemon Law Guidelines will come directly form the Home State’s “.gov” website OR that Home State’s Attorney General’s website. Do NOT relay on any “3rd party” website, ALWAYS go directly to the sites mentioned.

As for the current condition of the car and it’s location - yes, leave it where it sits since it has multiple DTC’s and drivability issues. I would make mention to your RAV Rep that you do not want to be held responsible for any damages to the vehicle since it’s on the Ford Dealer’s lot AND that you left the vehicle in excellent condition prior to the lengthy repair efforts. If you can, take dated pictures of the car exterior and interior this way it backs up your claim for when it’s time to turn over the keys and sign off on all the RAV paperwork.

If you are paying for a loaner, keep all receipts and provide final tally to RAV. If you’re in a Ford loaner free of charge, stay in it until it’s time to complete the Buy Back transaction.

 

[20mustang16]

ok thx for the advice now i know why people get lawyers to fight Car company cobra jet you were spot on the Rav rep pretty much told me im ass out on my add ons ! not very happy about all this , not a way to make someone return as a customer ! im basically out 4000.00 on a car with 337 mile
s on it and i get it shoved up my a$$! pissed off for sure good bye FORD YOU LOST ME!

 

[Cobra Jet]

ok thx for the advice now i know why people get lawyers to fight Car company cobra jet you were spot on the Rav rep pretty much told me im ass out on my add ons ! not very happy about all this , not a way to make someone return as a customer ! im basically out 4000.00 on a car with 337 mile
s on it and i get it shoved up my a$$! pissed off for sure good bye FORD YOU LOST ME!

Yea, it sucks for sure...

Do you have any stock parts that you took off to upgrade with the aftermarket parts? As much as it may be a royal PIA, if you still retain the stock parts - remove the aftermarket parts and reinstall the stock pieces.. then sell off the aftermarket parts on here... I don’t know if that’s a possibility for you, but if it is, something to consider so you’re not totally out that $4k.

You also don’t need a Lawyer... just patience and FACTS. As long as you have work orders, emails, phone logs, voice mails etc to back up the Lemon claim, you’re good and can resolve it all through RAV. Don’t sign off on any RAV Worksheet unless you’re totally satisfied with the figures presented AND that you’re being made whole. You have the right to reject their Worksheet multiple times until you’re satisfied with the refund amount. Quite a few of us have successfully completed a Buy Back (vehicle swap or complete refund) without any Attorney or BBB. Just remain patient, be diligent and act professional with any Ford CSR, Ford RAV Rep and the Dealership (who’s only the middle man in a RAV Buy Back) - that’s key to coming to final resolution in your favor.

One more thing, if you feel your Ford CSR or Ford RAV Rep is not being helpful or slow to assist with responding or getting you made whole, you have every right to go above that RAV Rep and demand to speak to a Supervisor.

 

[20mustang16]

Yes I have a few items that can be removed the hood shocks the engine paint cover thats paint matched and the grill upper and lower . The exhaust h pipe the 1080 stripes with the red accent stripes and the Michelin super sport tires that I put on to keep the sport cup 2's from throwing rocks up on my car , its funny the Rav rep ask me if I could replace the tires with a cheaper once , she hasn't have a clue on a Perforamnce pack 2 car wheels they only make 3 different tires all 305/40/19 there not very common but I just said yea that's not possible to change them out ,anyway I've been cool with my FORD CSR and my Dealership during this whole thing so I see no.reason to get crappy with the Rav agent either so I will keep keep notes ,text messages and emails too I'm just saying what's is right is to take care of a customer that spent a lot of money on a product that is not built correctly . I'll just keep persentant and professional and try to recoop as much as I can but they will still lose me as a Ford customer if they dont make this right , thanks Cobra jet for help my friend let the games begin.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Yes I have a few items that can be removed the hood shocks the engine paint cover thats paint matched and the grill upper and lower . The exhaust h pipe the 1080 stripes with the red accent stripes and the Michelin super sport tires that I put on to keep the sport cup 2's from throwing rocks up on my car , its funny the Rav rep ask me if I could replace the tires with a cheaper once , she hasn't have a clue on a Perforamnce pack 2 car wheels they only make 3 different tires all 305/40/19 there not very common but I just said yea that's not possible to change them out ,anyway I've been cool with my FORD CSR and my Dealership during this whole thing so I see no.reason to get crappy with the Rav agent either so I will keep keep notes ,text messages and emails too I'm just saying what's is right is to take care of a customer that spent a lot of money on a product that is not built correctly . I'll just keep persentant and professional and try to recoop as much as I can but they will still lose me as a Ford customer if they dont make this right , thanks Cobra jet for help my friend let the games begin.

No problem - that’s what this forum is for - helping. When you’re done and they have the car, be sure to post the VIN in the Lemon Law thread on here...

Good luck.

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