3+ degrees front camb

[TDC]

My car has become predominantly a track toy and is driven to and from the track (typically 150 miles one way). Need feedback regarding tire wear or poor drivability on streets from anyone who has more than 3 degrees of front camber and drives it to and from the track please.

Currently have 2.5 degrees front camber and not getting even wear on the fronts. The outsides are wearing too quickly while the inside still has life.

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[JohnD]

I have 2.5 degrees and I have no problem with tire wear or driveability on the street, you'd never know it wasn't stock setup. This is on 305/30/19 square on 11" wide rims. It's mostly a track toy too. Outsides wearing too quickly smells like maybe you're pushing too hard into the corners or a pressure problem? If it was a camber problem the wear would be on the inside of the tire.

What is your specific setup WRT tire and wheel size and the cold/hot pressures you're seeing?

 

[TDC]

The outside wear is coming from track use not road use. Tires are 305/30/R19 on 10.5” wide front and 11” wide rear. Currently front camber is 2.5. Tire types have been:
- MPSS
- RE11
- RE71R
- MPSC2

 

[xXANCHORMONXx]

I’d say the ride may be a bit more rough but I don’t do very many street miles anymore. Around 300-500 a year on MPSS and 1500-2000 at the track on pirelli slicks.

I run 3.3 I believe up front and 2.5 or so out back.

The tires wear perfectly even.

 

[Ryan P]

I have -3° front camber on a 19x11 wheel with a 305 tire. The biggest thing I've noticed on the street is the tramlining, other than that, no issues. I do the same as you, drive to track events and back. With the wear you are describing, it sounds like you need more camber. Is it possible the tire is rolling over due to pressure?

 

[BmacIL]

My car has become predominantly a track toy and is driven to and from the track (typically 150 miles one way). Need feedback regarding tire wear or poor drivability on streets from anyone who has more than 3 degrees of front camber and drives it to and from the track please.

Currently have 2.5 degrees front camber and not getting even wear on the fronts. The outsides are wearing too quickly while the inside still has life.

Springs/Bars, other parts?

 

[TDC]

I have -3° front camber on a 19x11 wheel with a 305 tire. The biggest thing I've noticed on the street is the tramlining, other than that, no issues. I do the same as you, drive to track events and back. With the wear you are describing, it sounds like you need more camber. Is it possible the tire is rolling over due to pressure?

I have used 29-31lb cold / 36-38lb hot so I don,t believe so. What tires were you using when you experienced the tramlining problem? I know the PSC2’s I’m currently on suck badly with tramlining plus after 4 track days the grip dropped precipitously and I’m 3 seconds slower than my fastest time. Will never buy them again (bought mine used with ~800 street miles). Going to NT01 next; 305/30 square.

Springs/Bars, other parts?

FP lowering springs otherwise I’m on a completely stock suspension.

 

[dmann]

interesting, I was getting wear like this when I was at -1.9 up front but cant imagine it still being like that at -3.
I too wonder what Bmac asked.

 

[BmacIL]

I have used 29-31lb cold / 36-38lb hot so I don,t believe so. What tires were you using when you experienced the tramlining problem? I know the PSC2’s I’m currently on suck badly with tramlining plus after 4 track days the grip dropped precipitously and I’m 3 seconds slower than my fastest time. Will never buy them again (bought mine used with ~800 street miles). Going to NT01 next; 305/30 square.



FP lowering springs otherwise I’m on a completely stock suspension.

OK. I'd strongly recommend considering both a large adjustable front swaybar and the Steeda roll center correction kit (lateral arms and bumpsteer kit). The roll center correction means that you won't need as much static camber to get the same at peak lat G, as they improve dynamic camber quite a bit. They also unfortunately reduce the max camber allowable without enlarging the tower holes, but the benefits are worth it. The front bar will not only reduce roll and help maintain camber, but will also actually improve front grip, provided you have a reasonably wide tire.

 

[TDC]

Interesting and thanks for the info. Was looking at their website and it does state (all) models so I’m assuming it includes GT350. Will call and find out. As far as front bar I thought stiffening it would reduce weight transfer to the front and then increase the tendency to understeer.

I’m assuming using camber plates should take care of the enlargement of holes issue you mentioned? Right now I have BMR camber bolts and am looking into adding plates to get the 3-3.5 degrees of front camber.

 

[BmacIL]

Interesting and thanks for the info. Was looking at their website and it does state (all) models so I’m assuming it includes GT350. Will call and find out. As far as front bar I thought stiffening it would reduce weight transfer to the front and then increase the tendency to oversteer.

I’m assuming using camber plates should take care of the enlargement of holes issue you mentioned? Right now I have BMR camber bolts and am looking into adding plates to get the 3-3.5 degrees of front camber.

Oh, no. GT350 already has that geometry correction more or less. I didn't catch that you have a GT350. The FP springs have a good front rate, but the rears are way too soft, unfortunately.

On the bar, traditional theory tells us that more front bar increases the front percentage of the roll stiffness distribution, and it does, but because of of the geometry of a McPherson strut front end and the lack of camber gain, increasing front roll stiffness on a heavy, and nose heavy car like this will actually produce less understeer, particularly on entry and as you transition to the apex, while having a stabilizing effect on corner exit as the weight transfer shifts rearward, allowing you to use the throttle more effectively (also because you're planting that inside rear tire better, letting the torsen diff work more effectively). This will continue to be the trend until you reach the point where the front outside tire can no longer handle the load spikes that come with increasing stiffness. Judging by what tires you're using, I don't think you'll run into that for a while.

After coming to grips with why it works, and trying it on my own car, I can vouch for its effectiveness. The flatness of the car works wonders at maintaining camber and improving front grip.

 

[PoppinJ]

OK. I'd strongly recommend considering both a large adjustable front swaybar and the Steeda roll center correction kit (lateral arms and bumpsteer kit). The roll center correction means that you won't need as much static camber to get the same at peak lat G, as they improve dynamic camber quite a bit. They also unfortunately reduce the max camber allowable without enlarging the tower holes, but the benefits are worth it. The front bar will not only reduce roll and help maintain camber, but will also actually improve front grip, provided you have a reasonably wide tire.

I thought there are trade offs to lowering or raising the roll center that effects the front and rear differently. For instance a lower roll center front (which steedas extended ball joint is supposed to "fix") you would have more on throttle steering but an overall less responsive front end. Depending on the track you might want one over the other. Long sweeping higher speed turns for instance would benefit from a higher roll center.
I'm not near as knowledgeable as you but this is my understanding.

 

[BmacIL]

I thought there are trade offs to lowering or raising the roll center that effects the front and rear differently. For instance a lower roll center front (which steedas extended ball joint is supposed to "fix") you would have more on throttle steering but an overall less responsive front end. Depending on the track you might want one over the other. Long sweeping higher speed turns for instance would benefit from a higher roll center.
I'm not near as knowledgeable as you but this is my understanding.

No, raising the roll center does the opposite of that: more responsive front end, a tad less on-throttle front grip. There are tradeoffs for everything, but this is restoring roll center closer to where it was and in many cases, raising it from stock slightly, while retaining the lowered CG and higher spring rate (hopefully) of the springs one chose. The GT350 arms already have this built into the ball joint seat, which is different from all other S550s save the GT500, I expect.

 

[Stuntman]

Invest in a PROBE type tire pyrometer and learn how to use it. You're looking for a 20-30* spread with the inside being hotter than the outside. That will determine the necessary camber for your setup.

If you don't want to burn up the inside of your tire for street use, and you're not going to take camber out for street driving, run less front toe.

 

[TDC]

I do have a pyrometer (used for autox) but haven’t brought it to the road course yet. Usually by the time I’m off the road course and out of the car a few minutes have passed so I questioned the value of whatever readings I’ll get. Worth a try anyways.

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