1st Autocross results, with questions

[bruce0293]

Gents/Ladies

I would appreciate educated answers only so we all can get educated here....

I have autocross for 7 years now into my eighth, four in an S2000, two in a Corvette C6GS. I am competitive winning 1st or second in various classes, in a couple regions over the years. I say this not to brag, just to let you know I have been at this a while.

OK, I ran my first autocross in the Steel City Region yesterday with the following results and accompanying questions.

I selected the sport mode to open the exhaust and then held the traction/stability control button until the light came on displaying stability control off. 1st pass I could tell at certain places on the course that the stability control was still interacting for some reason? My next run I selected track mode and then shut everything off, that seemed better?, however another issue arose~ When I was back in the paddock awaiting my 3rd run the fuel gauge was showing empty( I had just under 1/2 tank, (which in my standard practice) when I arrived) and the DIS stated fuel Empty. We have fuel available there so I put in 8 gallons of expensive fuel, and the gauge remained on empty, but I ran anyways. Spun the car on that pass but it seemed to not have the stability control interfering, I think?. The fuel gage eventually returned to just under full, but I had a check engine light on. A fellow competitor had a scanner that we plugging into the obdII, and there were 4 fuel sensor type codes, and we just cleared them. The last 3 remaining runs in the afternoon seemed to go ok using the track mode, the shutting off the traction control, however I think there was possibly one occasion (maybe?) that it felt like there was a slight delay in the throttle. Things happen fast so I'm not completely sure? No more check engine lights displayed either.

Questions:

1) does the mode buttons override the 'all off' on the stability control and/or do I need to leave in it normal then shut things off, and then open the exhaust through the track apps? Does anyone know conclusively how to shut it off-completely???

2) is it possible the 1/2 tank of fuel could have caused fuel starvation causing the occasional lack of throttle(felt like the stability control was interfering to me!)

3) do these car have issues with fuel being starved in high G applications? I really don't want to run a near full tank and have to carry another 40-50 pounds of fuel.

My results on 285/35-19 RE-71R's were 4th in class(1 second off of 1st place, this IS A BIG margin, so I need to step it up, smiling),,,,,, then 24 in raw time and 22nd in PAX (after all the handicapping levels out all the various classes) out of 123 drivers.

~Bruce

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[nastang87xx]

I know what you're talking about in the throttle delay. I felt it all the time in my '11 car with traction control and stability control completely off. Off off. Holding the traction control button down for a slow slow count to 5 off. Coming out of a turn, you put your foot down, nothing, and then all of a sudden a faction of a second later, VROOOOOM! It really screws with your corner exiting.

I think it's the flyby wire throttle body tuning. It just sucks.

 

[nastang87xx]

Drive by wire or fly by wire...or whatever it's called.

 

[bruce0293]

I know what you're talking about in the throttle delay. I felt it all the time in my '11 car with traction control and stability control completely off. Off off. Holding the traction control button down for a slow slow count to 5 off. Coming out of a turn, you put your foot down, nothing, and then all of a sudden a faction of a second later, VROOOOOM! It really screws with your corner exiting.

I think it's the flyby wire throttle body tuning. It just sucks.

Update: I called Ford performance and Mike was initially thinking(and reading as we spoke) that in Track mode that is was most liberal(hence why it felt way better, however I still think I felt something). He then was further reading as said it looking like through the steering wheel that there as a way to get to a menu for ESC off, which appeared via what he was reading to shut everything off? He was going to try to dig into it and let me know. I too will check later when I'm home.

nastang87xx: A fellow competitor I spoke with on Sunday with a 2014GT, had an aftermarket tune that disabled the traction/stability control completely.

He thought the 'fuel codes' may be a loose sensor and/or connector. I have another event this weekend at another location, so I will not add fuel and see if I can get it down to a half tank and see if I have the same problems......

I'll report back in on both issues, when I know something....

 

[GT_Dave]

Hi Bruce,

I would be very interested in any information collected from Ford Performance on this issue. I ran a 2 day autocross last weekend and experienced a lot of the same issues. Only this was my first time doing autocross since 1980. Our conditions were challenging, the 1st day was 38 degrees but dry, the 2nd day was 48 degrees and raining. So I wasn't able to push as hard as I would have liked.
In track mode, I was able to easily overpower the amount of traction available, some areas would hold a controlled spin, but coming out of one chicane I would consistently loose throttle response like the system was backing me down 30%.
Regardless, I still have a lot to learn to get competitive.

 

[bruce0293]

Hi Bruce,

I would be very interested in any information collected from Ford Performance on this issue. I ran a 2 day autocross last weekend and experienced a lot of the same issues. Only this was my first time doing autocross since 1980. Our conditions were challenging, the 1st day was 38 degrees but dry, the 2nd day was 48 degrees and raining. So I wasn't able to push as hard as I would have liked.
In track mode, I was able to easily overpower the amount of traction available, some areas would hold a controlled spin, but coming out of one chicane I would consistently loose throttle response like the system was backing me down 30%.
Regardless, I still have a lot to learn to get competitive.

Will do, I will give feedback, and if for some reason don't yell at me :-)

Please have patience learning, it will come in time. :-) I too found the car to have plenty of pull in second gear and was easily sliding if I wanted to to rotate on sticky tires on a 75 degree day.

 

[nastang87xx]

I'll report back in on both issues, when I know something....

Sounds good. I plan on lots and lots of autocross with my car. The throttle response thing is something that really concerns me because that can definitely unsettle the car after a brake zone if you're not right back on the power. I could see losing half a second because of something so silly.

 

[nastang87xx]

Oh another observation: the lack of throttle response only happened when coming OUT of a corner (with my '11 car). If I were say in 3rd gear at 4000RPM on a straight and put my foot down, she would lurch and go the instant my gas pedal changed.

Because of that, part of me wants to say there's was something wrong with my diff but I really don't know...

 

[bruce0293]

Sounds good. I plan on lots and lots of autocross with my car. The throttle response thing is something that really concerns me because that can definitely unsettle the car after a brake zone if you're not right back on the power. I could see losing half a second because of something so silly.

OK, ford Performance sent me an e-mail: Mike stated that as far as he could find, that going to TRACK mode, then holding the Traction control Button in for approx 8 seconds displays a Stability Control OFF of the DIS in the center of the controls. I can confirm this and it was off, or tamed way down. I need to get more seat time to confirm it is all the way off. I did have a fairly wild(not planned) drift thru a show case corner and didn't notice anything intervening... FYI: this needs to be done every time the car is restarted.

Additional info, Ford is working on a track key for our cars, but it will bid mid summer or so???? before released. I can't know what all it will have programmed into it?

 

[xt6wagon]

I'm guessing you only used 2nd gear once you left the line?

 

[Jkayles]

Hey Bruce. Regarding the fuel question. I ran at least 10 min with the low fuel light on at my last track day. Pulled into the pits and it said I had 8 miles till empty. Didn't sputter once.

 

[bruce0293]

I'm guessing you only used 2nd gear once you left the line?

Yes

 

[bruce0293]

Hey Bruce. Regarding the fuel question. I ran at least 10 min with the low fuel light on at my last track day. Pulled into the pits and it said I had 8 miles till empty. Didn't sputter once.

Thank you, appreciated!

After hearing confirmation from FRacing regarding needing to be in track mode then shutting off the stability control, that confirms my impressions, just need seat time to see if it is completely disabled.

Regarding the fuel gage reading empty when it had just under half a tank, Mike from FR said it may be a sensor, or connection in the tank. I am going to let the fuel get to below half a tank and see if this happens again???

 

[xt6wagon]

Thank you, appreciated!

After hearing confirmation from FRacing regarding needing to be in track mode then shutting off the stability control, that confirms my impressions, just need seat time to see if it is completely disabled.

Regarding the fuel gage reading empty when it had just under half a tank, Mike from FR said it may be a sensor, or connection in the tank. I am going to let the fuel get to below half a tank and see if this happens again???

Not sure how the gt350 gas tank is built, but my 94 sho managed to lose a 1/3 of a tank in fuel at the track that took hours to be read again. Guessing if you were sloshing it hard it may have been messing with the fuel sensor and Fords are known for not reacting well to increased fuel level with the ignition on. So you slosh hard making it read low, fuel levels out and the ecu ignores it.

 

[bruce0293]

Not sure how the gt350 gas tank is built, but my 94 sho managed to lose a 1/3 of a tank in fuel at the track that took hours to be read again. Guessing if you were sloshing it hard it may have been messing with the fuel sensor and Fords are known for not reacting well to increased fuel level with the ignition on. So you slosh hard making it read low, fuel levels out and the ecu ignores it.

Thanks for the info ;)

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