Removal of CMCV's

[TorkN8R]

I was doing a little research on the web in regards to Charge Motion Control Valves. Turns out that Ford used them prior, back in 05 I believe. There were plenty of old forum discussions about the benefits or not in removal of the CMCV plates. There were even manufactures like Steeda that made Mod's for doing it. Some claimed dyno increases, well others claim no such increase worth the trouble.

I have two question for my Mustang6G comrades out there.

1. With Fords latest attempt at CMCV's in the 2015 5.0L, do we know if they have improved on the technology and or got the bugs out of it. Or is this another item that we will won't to remove and will we be able to remove it?

2. I've decided that I will be installing a Ford Racing Whipple Supercharger on my 2015 and I want to know if that means that I will be removing the CMCV's from the existing manifold or will they stay in place with the S/C and or should they?

Thank you all in advance for your help.

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[scottpe]

A lot of this will depend on how well they are designed this time around. People used to 'delete' them in the past because of some restriction of airflow up high. I'm sure they will still impact airflow to some degree by sheer nature of their existence in the airflow path, but whether it will be enough to really matter is yet to be seen.

They do have a purpose though obviously. Removing them can impact low end torque, idle quality and fuel economy. Coyotes need all the help they can get down low, so to me it's more important to have that extra torque in the part of the power band where I spend most of my time than to have a few extra horsepower up top.

To answer your second question, I believe many supercharger kits remove them, but obviously you'd just have to see what the requirements are for the specific kit you purchase.

 

[IGJoe2192]

If you are going with a twin screw supercharger kit then you will be removing the intake manifold in which will include the CMCV's. If you are going the Turbocharger or Centrifugal Supercharger route then you will probably have the CMCV's removed or open at all times depending on what the kit manufacture suggests.

 

[Tony Alonso]

There really weren't "bugs" but rather, as mentioned above, the freeing up for additional airflow that some decided was a benefit. It's on the 2010 GT 4.6L engine I've had now for almost 5 years. The low-to-midrange "seat-of-the-pants" feel they bring for around town driving is worth the benefit. That's how I use my car primarily.

I was happy to hear this technology was going to be reapplied on the 2015 5.0L to bring the same benefit, in addition to the fuel economy improvements.

 

[DMassey]

I deleted them from my 06 GT with the Steeda delete plates. I picked up over a tenth and over 1 mph in the 1/4 with that mod. Well worth it to me, but that's negligible for someone that doesn't drag race their car; so having functioning cmcv's do have an intended function. But for drag racers like me, they were just a restriction. I wanted unrestricted airflow, and my 4.10 gears made up for any perceived loss of low end torque.

It was a great mod on a 3V 4.6, and I will certainly at least look into it on the 15+ 5.0.

 

[5.0GT]

I think they are going to be a hinder once you start modding it further and further. Will delete mine when I get around to buying a new mustang and going all out.

 

[Johnb-5.0]

The cmcv's used in the coyote are a new design, 0 benefit removing them.

 

[Pablo GT350]

The cmcv's used in the coyote are a new design, 0 benefit removing them.

True (probably) if you are sticking with the stock IM. Now if the Boss and CJ intakes show good gains then I wouldn't think twice about it.

 

[5.0GT]

The cmcv's used in the coyote are a new design, 0 benefit removing them.

No one stays stock in my house lol

 

[Tim Hilliard]

I deleted them from my 06 GT with the Steeda delete plates. I picked up over a tenth and over 1 mph in the 1/4 with that mod. Well worth it to me, but that's negligible for someone that doesn't drag race their car; so having functioning cmcv's do have an intended function. But for drag racers like me, they were just a restriction. I wanted unrestricted airflow, and my 4.10 gears made up for any perceived loss of low end torque.

It was a great mod on a 3V 4.6, and I will certainly at least look into it on the 15+ 5.0.

Curious what did that car run in the 1/4 mile?

 

[Tim Hilliard]

I was happy to hear this technology was going to be reapplied on the 2015 5.0L to bring the same benefit, in addition to the fuel economy improvements.

I will be curious to see what Ford releases for the PWC engine package for mid season 2016. I'm smart enough to not assume there will be a different intake manifold, road racing requires mid range torque. Maybe a race piece will have them, maybe not. On my street car that will go to the track on a regular basis I for one will not be screwing with R&D that is outside my budget for a minimal gain, and in my experience that's all that is really accomplished, compromise torque where it is most needed for a small gain (if at all) Unless you change fuel mapping to compensate for the extra airflow all you do is lean out the mixture so it feels better. Once you reach the range where they were fully open the fuel curve returns to normal. The other thing that is left on the table without a competent tuner is the timing curve which is based on a load signal, that can go either way depending on the actual operating conditions.

 

[scottpe]

A new article on SVTPerformance sheds some more light on the S550's implementation of the CMCVs. Sounds like there will be no reason to remove them for performance reasons, short of specific modifications that require it:

"Now don’t go having nightmares about the old Intake Manifold Runner Control system’s hindrance of intake airflow at wide-open throttle; the new ones are end-pivoting, not center-pivoting like the old IMRCs. Thus they fold completely flush into the wall of the runners at WOT, and there’s no shaft running through the center of the intake runners to mess with airflow. So we get better efficiency at cruise with no power penalty when gas pedal meets floorboard."

Full article here: http://www.svtperformance.com/?p=3125

Credit to Tony Alonso for originally posting the link.

 

[DMassey]

Absolutely! Anything i previously said about removing them is now a moot point. The end pivot changes everything

 

[Grimace427]

Here are some photos of the tumble flaps in a Mercedes M273 intake manifold. You can see they default in the open position and really have no impact of airflow. When they activate you can compare it to putting your thumb on the end of a garden hose. Flow reduces but velocity increases. At low RPM this increase in velocity greatly improves cylinder filling for greater power/torque and also with the improvements in breathing abilities of the new heads/cams improved driveability at low rpm's.

 

[Grimace427]

I shot a little video of the flaps in action but it's on my home computron. I'll see if I can post it later.

Edit: here is a photo of the flaps being actuated.

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