Novice impression - Took my GT-PP to the Auto-Cross Today

My background: I'm def not a frequent autocrosser (mostly time commitments, but hope to change that) and this was my first time in the Mustang GT (Stock).I have auto crossed 6 times over the past 8 years in my prior cars. I was in the novice class.

Conditions: 60 degrees, moist track, cloudy, rough tarmac, no hazards (trees etc) on an abandoned airstrip. 33psi front and rear cold tires. Heated was 35/36 psi.
Goals: Have fun, let loose, learn better car control on this Stang and how to overdrive it, try to improve times.
Results: Dropped 8 seconds of my time (not competitive) between the first run and fourth. Had the most fun I've ever had in a car. Decided I want to do this more often.

Highlights + Observations:

• At my novice level, I didn't notice excessive lean (which was weird, I was expecting to).
• Suspension felt supple and sporty (like a BMWs suspension)
• I did not experience under-steer. I was expecting to based on many people wanting to run larger front tires.
• The tires were out of their element. They are really grippy when its hot, but here in 60 degree wet conditions they were neither here or there. I bet Michelin AS3's or even Super Sports would have been much better. Overall grip level was moderate with sudden loss of traction. Bleeding some air from the rears (about 3 psi) probably would have helped as well.
• I DID experience some over steer. A lot of this was due to overenthusiastic novice mistakes like too much throttle at the wrong times (mid turns, etc) and hard tires - hey, it was addictive!
• Not surprisingly, my fastest run was in Normal mode with TC on. Runs in Sport + (I did not try Track or switch TC off) were slower.
• I am pretty confident Sport+, Track and Track+No TC are much better, just not for someone like me starting off trying to learn the course in a new car in damp conditions.
• I spun the car once mid turn on a damp patch with Sport+ and TC on. I have never spun a car before! So guys, remember, Sport+ and TC on will not save you from a spin! It was AWESOME.
• On the subject of driving modes, my last car has crazy intervention in any mode other than 'M' mode. Even in 'M' TC would slow it down. You had to switch everything off. In this car, the computers did not visibly intervene. Sport+ mode was like M mode.
• Of course, the M mode made the suspension incredible stiff (unlike this car).
• Steering was GREAT. I love the steering on this car as I've mentioned before.
• I felt the Mustang was more nimble and neutral and less heavy feeling than my BMW M6.
• The increased torque was also noticeable throughout the run Vs my old car.
• The throttle response in the M6 was sharper in 'M' mode and I missed that. However, I did not drive in Track or seriously in Sport+, so not a fair comparison.
• There was a lot of wheel hop off the line. This needs to be fixed aftermarket.
• I missed the wicked exhaust note of my M. I need to throw on a set of Corsa's soon.
• I was on the only S550. Got a TON of compliments and folks wanting to ride in it.
• The key to faster laps was riding with folks to learn the track more, being gentle on the throttle for the most part and improving my lines.

Wrap up thoughts:

• Biggest mod today is the driver mod! I learnt a lot. I really believe I could have gained another 8 seconds easily if I had run in the AM (so the whole day) and with practice and skill further 5-6 seconds over the season in the stock configuration.
• There was a lot of Stang love. You can always meet people who have a story about a Stang and want to share.
• The experience driver in the E92 M3 had loads of love for my GT. He said the S550 was a killer car and very similar to this M3, observations that I share in general as well.
• Dont quote me on this but I think the fastest times of the day were a 2006 GT (koni yellows and a larger rear sway bar, otherwise stock - 5 speed auto to boot), a 911 GT3, an E92 M3 (R compounds and larger front sway), what seemed to be a heavily modded Fiesta ST and a heavily modded 3-4 y/o Golf R. All these drivers were pretty seasoned auto-xérs and had an approx 8-10 second lead over me :first::first:
• There were some folks twice my age kicking ass. Came back with ego in check. Probably a good thing!

Pacific raceways huh? Did you all around like the track?

You will want less air in the rears to help make the vehicle very neutral handling wise. Once you have a dry event run it in track mode and hold the traction control button to turn off advance track. This will disable all traction and stability control and really allow you to rotate the car.

jdub.csu said:

You will want less air in the rears to help make the vehicle very neutral handling wise. Once you have a dry event run it in track mode and hold the traction control button to turn off advance track. This will disable all traction and stability control and really allow you to rotate the car.

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:eyebulge: I didn't know you could do that.

Asonitez said:

:eyebulge: I didn't know you could do that.

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Prepare for a spin out your first time disabling it

Great write-up as always, Valentino!

nice writeup, good to hear your impressions. pretty serious guys out there huh? trailering their fully streetable 911s to an autox? hehe a track day i can understand.

what year was your m6? those things are beasts but i haven't seen many on the autox, definitely more of a touring/road course car. although i don't think people would think a mustang is a great autox car either and it seems like they do okay or better than okay. seat time is the best thing you can do to improve any car and it seems you realize that. glad you had a good time!

also was this is a relatively large/open autox or really tight? if you're in 3rd gear much of it or ever 4th i'd consider that large/open (somewhat subjective measure...)

autocross and HPDEs are amazing .. try an HPDE sometime if you liked autox:cheers:

hawkbox said:

Pacific raceways huh? Did you all around like the track?

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Bremerton Raceway. Great auto x venue that's close to home.

evanescent03 said:

nice writeup, good to hear your impressions. pretty serious guys out there huh? trailering their fully streetable 911s to an autox? hehe a track day i can understand.

what year was your m6? those things are beasts but i haven't seen many on the autox, definitely more of a touring/road course car. although i don't think people would think a mustang is a great autox car either and it seems like they do okay or better than okay. seat time is the best thing you can do to improve any car and it seems you realize that. glad you had a good time!

also was this is a relatively large/open autox or really tight? if you're in 3rd gear much of it or ever 4th i'd consider that large/open (somewhat subjective measure...)

autocross and HPDEs are amazing .. try an HPDE sometime if you liked autox:cheers:

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My M6 was a 2008, so mid cycle refresh with that sonorous 5L V10 carried over! Never seen one at auto-x myself as well. A great GT car and freeway killer (high speed stability and confidence second to none) with one flaw (other than reliability)- tiny gas tank meant range was small. This is a similar problem with the GT500's as well - I dunno why manufacturers give their top performance models the same size gas tank as the base models!

S197's could become competitive (for that era) autocross cars with mods - the aftermarket was simply astonishing. Lookup 'Royal Purple Forum Wars' video on you-tube, a guy in an 05/06 GT (suspension mods) laid waste to pretty much everyone across different classes. I personally felt that generation, including the legendary Boss 302 had a certain old school-ness about the way they drove.

The new GT-PP is a different beast for sure. Unlike any prior Mustang, it has solid fundamentals from the factory - predictable neutral handling, solid steering, great brakes, stiff chassis and a tasteful interior to boot. The pluses are it still has that huge aftermarket to really make it outstanding and that solid engine. Out of the box though the M3 (E92) and M4 are more aggressively setup.

Track was very technical, all 2nd gear. Thats why the Fiesta ST and built Golf R were laying down times the same as a GT3, E92 M3. I dont know how the guy in the mostly stock 2006 GT pulled off what he did! I doff my proverbial hat to him.

Glad you liked it. With some minor changes, it gets a lot better too.

ABQautoxer said:

Glad you liked it. With some minor changes, it gets a lot better too.

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Thanks. What are your suggested changes? Cheers,

valentinoamoro said:

Thanks. What are your suggested changes? Cheers,

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Tires are a HUGE difference. Put Bridgestone 275/35/19 RE71R on all 4 wheels. Your speed will be slightly off but the grip, especially accelerating will make it a ton faster. If you stick with it, get a different set of wheels for the street and move the TPMS sensors to those, you don't need them for autox.

Front camber can be gained legally in F Street by grinding 2mm inboard on the upper strut bolt that holds the hub to the strut. Done right this will get you at least -2 camber.

Lower tire pressures. You're running pretty high in the rear. Most of us have a 2-4psi lower setting in the back. When you do both the mods I mentioned above, you can run around 32psi front and 30psi rear.

As you get better, turn off the AdvanceTrac all the way off, it really holds you back once you have decent car control skills.

ABQautoxer said:

Tires are a HUGE difference. Put Bridgestone 275/35/19 RE71R on all 4 wheels. Your speed will be slightly off but the grip, especially accelerating will make it a ton faster. If you stick with it, get a different set of wheels for the street and move the TPMS sensors to those, you don't need them for autox.

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Thanks. I would like a second set of R's for race (and switch to Michelin AS/3's for DD'ing), but the issue I have is dont have an easy way to transport the wheels with R's and mount them. It would involve having my wife drive the SUV with R's from my house to my friends (who has the kit needed to swap), changing, having her drive back...going to race...repeating the whole thing back when done. I'd also hate to ask a friend to keep 4 wheels/tires in his garage for storage.

A good compromise for me might be running Michelin PSS (they might do a V2 soon anyway) and drive it everywhere.

ABQautoxer said:

Front camber can be gained legally in F Street by grinding 2mm inboard on the upper strut bolt that holds the hub to the strut. Done right this will get you at least -2 camber.

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LOL. That explains what a bunch of people were saying that day. Tons of folks mentioned grinding the struts to gain camber and I was confused as to 1) why it cant be adjusted without grinding 2) if -2 is beyond the limits of stock capability (which I was suspecting), why I cant use camber plates. Stock class rules now make sense. My car will not remain stock next year anyway so moot point.

Again, for me this is my DD and I dont see my self driving around with -2 in the fronts as it will impact wear. I will increase camber and adjust toe to be more sporty than the stock setup (BMR seems to have a decent compromise for street and track) using the cars adjust-ability.

ABQautoxer said:

Lower tire pressures. You're running pretty high in the rear. Most of us have a 2-4psi lower setting in the back. When you do both the mods I mentioned above, you can run around 32psi front and 30psi rear.

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Yes, was aware of that but not sure how much lower. Thanks for the tip.

ABQautoxer said:

As you get better, turn off the AdvanceTrac all the way off, it really holds you back once you have decent car control skills.

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I look forward to doing that as I get better for sure. Infact, if it was a hot day I think I could have easily run in Sport and perhaps even in track mode. The OEM's are treacherous in the cold moist tarmac.

RE-71Rs are street tires - drive to the event on them from your house. Change them at home if you need to, but they are 200TW street tires, you can drive to the event on them. If you are driving to a national tour or nationals several hundred miles away that may be a different story, but for locals it shouldn't be an issue.

I drive my RE71R with just over -2 camber daily. I've now corded 2 and worn the other 2 so low I'm going to find some DWS or similar to get through our mild winter. I drove 900 miles each way to Nationals, did pretty well, and drove home on them. These are by far my most favorite street tires ever.

For autox, pressures are cold/hot, you bleed them down to keep them there.

ABQautoxer said:

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For autox, pressures are cold/hot, you bleed them down to keep them there.

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I didnt know that. All the temps I quoted were cold, when hot the F/R's were each at 36 psi. I will bleed 'em next time.