Rumormill: Next gen coyote will be twin turbo 4.0L.

[Bullitt]

This rumor doesn't surprise me one bit with how Ford (and most every other manufacturer) is obsessed with turbocharging everything in sight now. This is why either my current GT or possibly a 2018 will most likely be a car I keep the rest of my life. The last dying breath of the NA V8 in a normal Mustang. Good to hear that there's still a possibility of an NA V8 in a special edition S650. That would be something I'd be interested in, otherwise I'm planning on sticking with the S550 generation. It's sad to be nostalgic about the present. These CAFE regulations need to die in a fire imo lol. It's gonna be the 1970-80s all over again.

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[EcoVert]

. It's sad to be nostalgic about the present. These CAFE regulations need to die in a fire imo lol. It's gonna be the 1970-80s all over again.

As long as Lee Iacocca doesn't come back and make Ford build a Mustang III. :doh:

 

[Hack]

Yep. The modern turbos are very drivable and tractable with their flat, early torque curves. I don't particularly care for this type of power delivery as, like you say, they fall flat up top - they're very "bottom-loaded". I have little need for 400lb-ft at 1500rpm - while I wouldn't turn it down, I would never trade high rpm for low grunt. The other big issue with turbo cars is the lag. Even the best of the best, today, still have loads of lag at lower rpms and this a major turn off - what you get is a very small/week NA motor for about 2 seconds and then the beast awakens. This means that any given throttle angle can result in vastly different amounts of force depending where you are in the boost range.

What makes the Coyote so fun (to me) is the way it zings to redline and the way it sounds doing it. A turbo will surely change both of these characteristics dramatically, and, probably for the worse to most NA lovers. When this same switch happened to another performance icon many enthusiasts were turned off.

Of course the turbo will blow the doors off the NA variant and so if raw performance is what matters then this is the correct recipe. Now, if they can extend the rpm window to say 7k rpm and minimize lag, then, sound aside (most likely), we'd have a winner.

It's possible to design a turbo engine to have a high end rush.

Feds dictating what the peasantry will be allowed to drive.

It's really upsetting when our freedoms continue to be eroded away.

It's sad to be nostalgic about the present. These CAFE regulations need to die in a fire imo lol. It's gonna be the 1970-80s all over again.

It could easily happen and then continue to go downhill from there depending on government policies.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

They've been saying the V8 is going away since the 80s. As long as there is a market. They'll be a V8. You might have to pay a little more for the privilege. But it'll be there.

 

[zackmd1]

I am not saying that a 4.0 TT V8 is not possible, but I really do not see the incentive for Ford. A 4.0 V8 would be a "massive" R&D project and thereby costly. I just don't see why a company would go through that when they have a 3.5 V6 that is capable of 600hp... That said, it would be very interesting to see and hear if real!

 

[Optimum Performance]

I'd expect to see a 5.2 Coyote with DI before the N/A V8's go away. It will be interesting to see if the 2.7L joins the line up. I do not see Ford building smaller V8's with turbocharging, especially twins. 1. Packaging nightmare. 2. Cost Unless the car doubles in price I expect things will stay fairly conventional for the next 8-10 years. They can limit production of engines that impact CAFE so they don't skew the numbers too much. I also expect some blow back from the industry when the market dictates that the CAFE standards are unreasonable to meet without killing sales.

 

[zackmd1]

FYI... If you are curious to hear how it might sound, search Toyota 1uz on youtube. That is a 4.0 32 valve overhead cam V8.

[ame]

 

[Bullitt]

They've been saying the V8 is going away since the 80s. As long as there is a market. They'll be a V8. You might have to pay a little more for the privilege. But it'll be there.

I'm not so sure this time though. Germany this past week just proposed a complete ban on internal combustion engines by 2030. Who knows if it'll actually pass but other EU countries have also been pushing the idea. Everyone thinks the future is electric. So not only is the V8 going away, but gasoline engines in general most likely have an end in sight. Now Europe is always more progressive in their policies so I don't see something like this taking effect in America until at least 2035 but still, the threat remains. Look at how much hype Tesla has with the general public. I don't want to be all gloom and doom but without a major culture shift in thinking, autonomous electric cars are what the majority of drivers want sadly and it's coming quick.

 

[wildcatgoal]

I think we all know, thanks to the EPA, we will have a smaller V8 with turbos. Not even direct injection can save a big V8 in a Regular Joe's car, sorry. But if they make it perform similar to the M3 E92 4.0L V8 but give it Ecoboost-grade torque and lighten these pigs up a bit... you will not be missing the 5.0. I bought a 5.0 because I know they won't be around for much longer; an Ecoboost makes a lot more sense for what I do with the car... but 5.0 while I can.

 

[wildcatgoal]

I'm not so sure this time though. Germany this past week just proposed a complete ban on internal combustion engines by 2030. Who knows if it'll actually pass but other EU countries have also been pushing the idea. Everyone thinks the future is electric. So not only is the V8 going away, but gasoline engines in general most likely have an end in sight. Now Europe is always more progressive in their policies so I don't see something like this taking effect in America until at least 2035 but still, the threat remains. Look at how much hype Tesla has with the general public. I don't want to be all gloom and doom but without a major culture shift in thinking, autonomous electric cars are what the majority of drivers want sadly and it's coming quick.

Germany has other social issues to worry about other than banning V8s.

Until companies figure out how to safely and economically use HYDROGEN fuel cells to power our cars and oil companies figure out how to make a profit from it, IC engines aren't going anywhere. Batteries require far too much "rare earth metal" technology, weight, and charge time to be a viable sell. Hell, I had a Chevy Volt and, to this day, it is the best car I've ever owned. I spent a whopping total of $40 a month in gas (and that's only because I used to drive like 50 billion miles a week). But I moved to a warehouse loft sort of thing in the city and there's nowhere to plug the thing in. Not to mention the grid improvements necessary to power all of these electric cars. That'll take tax dollars and literally every single country except probably Switzerland is in the red thanks to infrastructure being second fiddle to entitlements.

 

[Twin Turbo]

As long as Lee Iacocca doesn't come back and make Ford build a Mustang III. :doh:

Well, Lee Iacocca had a vision that the baby boomers wanted a cool, small-ish, modern sports car, and he was the driving force behind the original, super-successful Mustang.

He then saw the potential impact of the Arab Oil Embargo and that people would want an economic sporty car in the mould of the original Mustang, Mustang II was born and sold fantastically well, keeping the Mustang brand alive.

He then went on to Chrysler and introduced the mini-van.

Whilst Ford already has superb management working for them, I'd welcome someone with Lee Iacocca's vision for producing the right car at the right time

 

[Bullitt]

Well, Lee Iacocca had a vision that the baby boomers wanted a cool, small-ish, modern sports car, and he was the driving force behind the original, super-successful Mustang.

He then saw the potential impact of the Arab Oil Embargo and that people would want an economic sporty car in the mould of the original Mustang, Mustang II was born and sold fantastically well, keeping the Mustang brand alive.

He then went on to Chrysler and introduced the mini-van.

Whilst Ford already has superb management working for them, I'd welcome someone with Lee Iacocca's vision for producing the right car at the right time

As long as they fire-proof the gas tank on the next Pinto! :lol:
All kidding aside, I feel bad the Mustang II gets so much grief, because as you said, it was very popular in it's day and kept the Mustang alive.

 

[EricSMG]

I would have to disagree that newer cars still have loads of lag. I've owned both a 1987 Thunderbird TurboCoupe and a 2013 Focus ST and the difference between the two was staggering. Rolling flat at top end does tend to be a problem for turbo cars, but honestly how much time is spent there for daily driving? The track will be a problem for it. :(

I also hope I don't have to listen to kids putting in retarded BOV on V-8 cars. It just sounds terrible.

Fair. Perhaps "loads" was a bit dramatic. Relative to older turbos they newer stuff is far less laggy but relative to a high performance NA power plant they're still very laggy, down low. Once you're in the boost there is zero lag, though.

Regarding top end pull - sure, for "DD" use it's not super relevant but we don't buy sports car because they're good DDs. We buy them because they're exciting and high rpm power is damn fun. I redline my GT multiple times daily because that's where the thrill is. Someone who spends little time above 4k rpm in this car may as well be driving a different car in my opinion because they're totally missing the point of the Coyote V8.

+1 on the BOVs!

It's possible to design a turbo engine to have a high end rush.

Of course it's possible but no one does and it seems that way because the "average" driver wants as much low end torque as possible and cares not about top end rush. Pretty much all modern turbos make max torque around 1500-2000rpm and then keep it there until around 5k rpm.

In that case we should all just be driving BMW 335s. Very fast, very powerful, very effective, very good DD, VERY boring.

I think we all know, thanks to the EPA, we will have a smaller V8 with turbos. Not even direct injection can save a big V8 in a Regular Joe's car, sorry. But if they make it perform similar to the M3 E92 4.0L V8 but give it Ecoboost-grade torque and lighten these pigs up a bit... you will not be missing the 5.0. I bought a 5.0 because I know they won't be around for much longer; an Ecoboost makes a lot more sense for what I do with the car... but 5.0 while I can.

Exactly.

What I'd like to see is someone design a turbo motor that progressively builds boost so as to approximate the "building and building" delivery of an HSO NA power plant but with much more overall torque. Peak torque should be in the midrange, not just off idle, and peak hp should be very very high AND just before redline. This will be not only the fastest recipe but also the most fun to drive.

 

[tcman54]

Hope future Mustangs can reach these goals:

 

[obgod3]

Spoke with a service manager a few weeks ago he said the GT500 will have a 4.2 twin turbo...not sure about a 4.2 sounds strange to me ....a completely new engine? Maybe he meant 5.2?

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